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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Oct 14, 2012 19:44:25 GMT -5
I want to address this, I've heard it a thousand times and it's probably the most prevalent myth in the martial arts nowadays. Parents send their kids to 2 classes a week for an hour each expecting it to build them into better people.
I posted this on Y!A the other day and I want to reiterate it here because I feel like I summed it up pretty well already:
"On the note of martial arts instilling politeness or discipline or any other characteristic in somebody, I just don't see that. It hasn't been my experience at all, at least. I was a terrible child and martial arts did nothing for me. What did it for me was good parenting and a genuine want to change the way that I was. Discipline is what keeps you going back to training, not what training instills in you. It's something we develop ourselves or else we fail. Maybe some have made huge breakthroughs in their character in training, but it wasn't the martial art that did it. It was the instructor if anything combined with a desire to become better not only in training but as a person. If that desire isn't there, then a few hours a week just isn't enough for an instructor to instill anything into a child. Their parents and teachers, who spend countless hours more with them, are the ones to be credited."
I'd like to hear some other opinions regarding this as well, so feel free to share, but that is my personal opinion on the matter.
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odee
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Post by odee on Oct 15, 2012 6:06:54 GMT -5
I dunno about not being character building. Full contact martial arts tend to teach kids a bit of respect and tact. After a couple of beatings they tend to realise that there are people they just can't intimidate to get what they want and people who can MAKE them do as they're told. Here is the funny part though, unless they earn their kid's respect themselves parents probably won't be on the list of respected people.
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Post by cheetah on Oct 19, 2012 10:35:16 GMT -5
Disciplined, I don't know, people use this term to mean different things that the literal meaning. More respectful, even tempered, controlling your own emotions and actions, I would say without a doubt. I'd say that I was a less emotionally stable adult before I began practicing martial arts. I came up in a very strong dojang with regards to respect. If I didn't want to do something, I had no choice, do it or leave. If coming up the colored belt level, I started getting a little too over confident or cocky, I got smacked back down fast. Over time, this has definitely made a difference in my personality and I'm a much better person in my personal life, business life, etc for it.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Oct 19, 2012 11:00:24 GMT -5
depends on what school you go to some will teach discipline like the army would others don't do it at all.
lineage is a HUGE factor in stuff like that because no 2 schools are identical, even if they teach the same style they will usually do something different.
I've been to schools that do both and one school I went to when I was younger was like a boot camp and they taught discipline, that's just what they did and their medium was martial arts.
If your school doesn't teach discipline doesn't mean jack $/!+ just like a judo school that teaches ate-waza & atemi-waza and others don't, it doesn't mean the place that teaches ate & atemi don't teach judo because if you use the moves in a judo match you would get kicked from the tournament it just means there lineage is different and teaches things differently.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Oct 19, 2012 12:47:14 GMT -5
When I say discipline, I'm talking about it quite literally. I don't mean the same thing as character. Discipline is just one factor of character, and when it comes to character there are plenty of ways to build it up overall - but in the end the discipline factor comes down to the individual. Cheetah, you said your Dojang's philosophy was "do it or leave". That's sort of what I already addressed. If this is the approach, then it isn't BUILDING discipline. Discipline, in this case, is what keeps a person from choosing "leave". If somebody takes that path, the martial art hasn't helped them develop a thing. You don't become a more rounded individual and reap the possible rewards out there in the martial arts without already having the discipline you need. Either you develop it yourself and can possibly build character doing what you're doing, or you'll develop nothing at all from it.
The reason I bring this up is the countless number of parents that send their kids to martial arts classes by force whether they like it or not expecting it to instill discipline into them. It's extremely rare for this approach to work because the job of a martial arts school isn't to raise your children for you.
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odee
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Post by odee on Oct 19, 2012 16:48:38 GMT -5
It's to teach them to fight. If you want discipline instill it yourself or send them to military school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 4:45:19 GMT -5
Parents these days want OTHER people to instill discipline and character into their kids. They can't do it or don't have it themselves. If your kid misbehaves at home then they will at Karate etc.
Discipline starts at home.
Note: Not all parents are bad, most are good but some can't do discipline because they are weak at it. I see it everyday at my place of work; High school.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 14, 2012 17:47:32 GMT -5
Some of them don't even want that. Parents aren't allowed to spank children, teachers aren't allowed to cane children, police aren't allowed to boot kids in the ass. With no repercussions for doing the wrong thing kids believe they can do what they please. F*#king do-gooders.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 17:56:12 GMT -5
Some of them don't even want that. Parents aren't allowed to spank children, teachers aren't allowed to cane children, police aren't allowed to boot kids in the ass. With no repercussions for doing the wrong thing kids believe they can do what they please. F*#king do-gooders. odee....I couldn't agree with you more mate. As a high school teacher in Sydney, I see this problem very day. Sad thing is we can do very little to discipline bad students and they know it. They push and push you because they know all they get is suspended. And they LIKE being suspended......F*#king do-gooders have done a lot to ruin our schools and society in general! Thankfully there are still some good people out their who try to raise good, honest and respectable kids.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 14, 2012 18:38:50 GMT -5
Thank the lords for small mercies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 22:55:12 GMT -5
Thank the lords for small mercies. odee...yes, sometimes thats all we have...LOL!
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KyKarateka
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Post by KyKarateka on May 4, 2013 19:00:17 GMT -5
Self discipline is an inside battle, martial arts simply initiate that battle. Nothing can build discipline but the person.
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Post by jwbulldogs on May 5, 2013 23:03:28 GMT -5
I recall this question on yahoo.
I hate when I see that martial arts will teach your child to be self discipline. It is just marketing.
Karate and no other art was meant to teach self discipline. They were created for self defense or life preservation. Sure that takes some discipline. But self defense starts with self. You have to discipline yourself. It is a choice. Not everyone that signs up will choose to be discipline. Not everyone that joins the military will be discipline. If you choose not be discipline in class you might get kicked out. Now the choice is yours you can either adhere to the rule or you can leave. You can do the push ups or suffer the consequences. I know people that were of bad character when they began martial arts and they continued to have a bad character. Some even worsened. Sure there have been some that improved too, but if I may reiterate without being too redundant the individual made a choice to change or not change. Some changes happen because they begin to mature. Some people never mature. I have some family member that are much older than I that still hasn't mature. They got one foot in the grave and still act childish.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on May 11, 2013 0:19:37 GMT -5
I'm pretty determined not to ever get too mature. Mature people are boring.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 2:22:11 GMT -5
Your only as young as the woman your feeling.......that way I'm 23 LOL
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