Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 3:15:07 GMT -5
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is increasingly being recommended for self defense and is becoming more and more taught as an important tool to police, prison guards and security.
What in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu do you feel/think that makes it useful and practical for self defense? If you disagree then please post and say why. I would like a two sided discussion if available.
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davo01
White Belt
Student of Wing Chun
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Post by davo01 on Jan 17, 2013 19:29:23 GMT -5
1. Takedowns/throws 2. Defense against takedowns/throws 3. Submissions/joint locks. They give you options before lethal force. Like Aikido in a way 4. Ground position 5. Learn how to escape mount and get back up.
All in all, it helps to get off the ground or go there if you know it is one on one. And its all tested against resisting people.
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Post by kokoro on Jan 17, 2013 20:13:34 GMT -5
Bjj focus on the ground, I don't know any prison guards that would deliberately go to the ground. There out numbered by masses and locked inside with prisoners Police officers will only go to the ground when they have the numbers on there side if there is only one officer they want to remain standing
If your goal is to work on the ground it is ideal for that. But that is not the best postion to be in for officers, It's good to have ground work for when you are down there but not to solely depend on it. Most officers I work with perfer to remain standing. I have one arrogant one that finally after 3 years of busting his chops realizing the importance of grappling/ joint locks. After he almost payed the price for it. You need to know all aspects of fighting not just one narrow point. Even though bjj has stand up it is limited. As Dave said its good to learn escapes. But you don't want to rely on it as your sole arrsinal. Especially in law enforcement
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 3:44:11 GMT -5
Not sure why prison guards or security use it if the focus is on the ground.
Maybe they train like where I do, we do heaps on wrestling drills like takedowns and avoiding them plus escaping mount and getting up. But I know/have seen schools that focus on the ground the whole time.
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Post by kokoro on Jan 18, 2013 8:18:15 GMT -5
judo and bjj are both good for escapes, so if a prisoner took you too the ground it would be useful styles like sanuces ryu are good for making them regret trying to get you to the ground, in-between the portion of standing going to the ground and getting back up.
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Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jan 19, 2013 15:51:14 GMT -5
Depends on your lineage it's a full style complete with strikes, trhows & ground fighting and it's great but some schools only teach a few takedowns & judo throws and a lot of ground fighting which is very one dimensional.
it's all about your teacher & even royce knows a ton of strikes it's just that after veldemar santana literally kicked the crap out of george gracie in a fight they stopped teaching striking outside the family until recently again.
bjj has like 30+ different styles it's not just the gracies, they teach gracie jiu jitsu.
The sport is ground fighting like the sport of karate is punching & kicking but the art's are much more encompassing and if your teacher is good then you'll have great instruction no matter what style.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jan 19, 2013 18:59:12 GMT -5
Two words - Police Brutality. Judo and Karate used to be the order of the day and before that Boxing and Wrestling, the changes have mostly been made because beating a rowdy prisoner down is carrying more and more issue for the officer involved, if a suspect assaults an officer and he punches them out they'll come into court sporting a broken cheek-bone (real or faked) and claim the officer roughed them to get evidence and the system will be against the cop. Same with throwing the suspect, the shoulder will be wrapped and a dislocation claimed. I doubt it's being taught with a focus on the ground, more likely the police are using a custom method similar to the original Japanese Jujitsu with standing locks and levers. The better a cop can control and subdue a person without leaving lasting damage the less chances of the cop being dragged into court for an annoying, costly and counter-productive mess.
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Keyboard Warrior
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Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Practitioner
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on May 15, 2013 2:26:27 GMT -5
A few reasons. Mainly because its so radically different approach to fighting. Most people are like deer in a headlights on the ground. You see guys that can't get guys off of them from bottom and you see guys that can't hold top position. People are a mess when fights go to the ground, and fighting WILL eventually go there, whether its intentionally or intentionally.
It also drastically reduces injuries. theres a difference between briefly choking someone out, and bashing someones face in with your knees and elbows. It's a better and more humane approach to fighting and self defense. Thats why it will be the premiere art that police agencies around the world will start utilizing. It will be universally practiced for these reasons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 6:55:55 GMT -5
I know that in Australia it is becoming the main art for security officers to learn. A number train in my school. And we have Police too. It will overtake Aikido for Police soon.
It's great for them as they can apprehend someone without causing serious harm and avoids getting into a striking match with fists and weapons.
For complete protection who need to add some striking. That's why security and police I know use their stand up training or do Boxing or Kickboxing etc.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 8, 2013 16:01:49 GMT -5
To stir the pot a bit, I have NEVER met a stand up focused martial artist that didn't study BJJ or Wrestling that knew how to stay standing better than a grappler. Every grappling technique a BJJ practitioner can perform they also know how to defend against better than most. That means a grappler is likely going to know how to stop a takedown far better than a striker, regardless of the type of striking art the striker focuses on, because grapplers spend more time sprawling and wrestling than any striker out there.
This has nothing to do with whether or not it's a good idea to fight on the ground, which is really a situational thing. It's not just a flat out bad idea to take a fight to the ground 100% of the time, sometimes a fight on the ground is preferable to staying on your feet. It all depends on how many opponents you face and your overall circumstances. But really, I don't see how anybody can say that BJJ is a bad skill set for self defense because really it's a great way to learn to shut down other grapplers even if you're a striker primarily. Cross training is ALWAYS a good idea if you have the time and money to do so.
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Post by kokoro on Jun 9, 2013 16:50:54 GMT -5
try sanuces ryu, no bjj in that style or wrestling and they are very excellent grapplers
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 10, 2013 4:25:55 GMT -5
I just looked into it. I'll be honest, it looks atrocious. It's all guys punching and holding their arms out while an instructor does a bunch of crazy stuff to them that nobody would just stand there taking. It reminds me of a mix of Ninjutsu and Aikido. In other words, no thank you! www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4_VuZRrBooAs for an earlier comment of ground fighting vs grappling, I really don't think anybody considers ground fighting to be what determines what is grappling and what isn't. However, the ground us such a useful weapon that it's worth utilizing and most grappling styles focus in some way or another on taking the fight there anyway, whether both fighters go to the ground or just one.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jun 10, 2013 5:53:17 GMT -5
Pimp my Dojo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 23:59:39 GMT -5
Back to BJJ.
Is it stupid to take guard in a street fight?
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jul 21, 2013 14:21:02 GMT -5
To PULL guard in a street fight? 9/10 times yes. Everything is situational in a fight.
Let's say you're out having a few drinks with your wife (or girlfriend. I'm married so I default to wife.) to celebrate her promotion at work. Some of her hot work friends are there, too, and a couple of lame dudes that she works with who wouldn't really be useful to have in a fight. You're pretty much the only trained person in this group and you're copping a pretty good sized buzz. Somebody a bit bigger than you are starts to harass your wife and her friends and is starting to get a bit violent over it. You're in a restaurant rather than a bar so no bouncers are coming to your aid and somebody that works there is calling the police but they won't be there for 25-30 minutes because it's a Friday night and they're already responding to every drunk driver and noise complaint in the neighborhood. Things get a little too heated and this big guy starts getting handsy.
You start shoving the guy back and he punches you. You try to punch back a few times and can't seem to land. SURPRISE! You're a little more tipsy than you thought. Your motor skills aren't really there and you don't trust your striking in this state, especially against a bigger guy. You try to clinch and take him down. Guy won't go down, what the heck? What you didn't know is that this guy was a state champion wrestler before he got his diploma. You've got some Boxing and BJJ experience, and your boxing has already come up short against this guy because you didn't expect anything to go down and had some drinks with your guard down. Happens to the best of us. Now you can't take him down, you can't seem to land any hits, and you notice no friends of his have jumped in yet. What option do you have left as a BJJ practitioner? Pulling guard and working off your back. You'll be comfortable there and you're in a restaurant with a decent amount of room to work even if it isn't ideal. If your options are exhausted otherwise...
THEN YOU PLAY THE HAND YOU'RE DEALT AND PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK AS THANKS FOR PREPARING FOR MULTIPLE RANGES OF FIGHTING! You didn't limit your own options, so now you can work a tight closed guard to hold off strikes, work to prison guard and roll him over, and now keep your top game until the police finally show up. Now that he's pinned, the scaredy cat group of guys you had with you are finally helping by just holding down limbs until police show up. No escalated violence, nobody seriously hurt, and BJJ wins again.
As I said, it's all situational. BJJ has a HUGE role to play in self defense if you look at fighting realistically and consider every possible outcome of a violent encounter.
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