KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Aug 31, 2013 14:54:28 GMT -5
Chino: that 's the ideal way to block because closer to the elbow is stronger. However it isn't always possible because sometimes kicks just happen fast and you just throw your hands up to block them.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Aug 31, 2013 16:37:37 GMT -5
I've noticed that nobody has touched the actual poll yet. Personally I'm having a hard time coming up with a definite yes or no answer. I believe that if you're ever restricted to just one sparring format your training will be limited by it.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Aug 31, 2013 19:34:56 GMT -5
Odee, it says it's been locked probably by the OP.
Also, it's because there really is no yes or no answer. Sure face contact is good for training and developing skill but what about in the long run? Will getting hit in the head constantly have an effect on your health later in life?
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 1, 2013 17:04:17 GMT -5
It's open now.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Sept 1, 2013 17:46:14 GMT -5
Yeah I just saw that. But I'm still torn between yes and no.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 2, 2013 17:35:57 GMT -5
I'm going with No. Sparring without punches to the head isn't an issue, lacking variety in sparring methods causes the issue.
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Post by lordunagi on Sept 3, 2013 2:00:55 GMT -5
without head contact with hands in sparring, there is already a lack of variety. Not everybody has the flexibility to kick the head. The amount of ignorance that can develop when you're used to standing nose to nose trying to hit the body with only the rules protecting you from the most common attacks doesn't help either.
Funny enough that I was actually first taught the superman punch in kyokushin. But it's originally thrown at the head. But it doesn't level the playing field either. Having the arms and elbows blocking every legal shot is helluvalot easier in kyokushin rules than in muay thai/kickboxing/real life.
I see quite a few comments saying some kyokushin schools have head contact or knockdown rules have this and that. One of the reasons I left is because not everyone can agree on one thing. I feel that more time is STILL spent on who is Oyama's "LEGIT" successor. Too many organizations and branches. Even top notch blackbelts would like to compete officially with head punches. But as some of y'all have already mentioned, only SOME dojos do this.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 3, 2013 2:43:19 GMT -5
I don't know if I'm hashing this explaination or you're just missing the point. I believe sparring under any single sparring rule-set lacks variety, it doesn't matter if it's as limited as Boxing or as general as MMA if you only have sparring practice under one rule-set you're being limited to just that style of fighting, you're not learning to adapt to different situations.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Sept 3, 2013 18:15:48 GMT -5
I have to agree with Odee. Even if you're doing boxing you still have the disadvantage of never being kicked. If you do BJJ you're not used to getting struck. A restricted rule set is non beneficial no matter what the rules are.
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Post by lordunagi on Sept 10, 2013 2:18:56 GMT -5
Well in this case you won't be use to getting punches aimed at the face. Which is the biggest disadvantage when it comes to fighting, trained or untrained. True, less rules is better. Which is why MMA has some of the least restrictions when it comes to sparring compared to almost every other style. The ratio with that to the settings is perfect IMO. Not like any styles let you full contact to the balls or the eyes anyway.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 10, 2013 16:47:50 GMT -5
Even MMA has its restrictions. I know I won one of my matches because of the rules - My opponent had my back in a rear choke but couldn't lock the thing down because I had an arm in there, I started hammering at his ribs with my free elbow until I managed to hit him just below the ribs and all the power just left his arms, that was nearly a good minute's work that was only possible because the rules forbade him from twisting my head off. On the street he would have given up trying to choke me out and simply started cranking my head until I lost consciousness or he dislocated my neck. Should we be condemning MMA because rules allowed me to win that match when I should have lost it? Should all Kickboxing styles be condemned because they don't have grappling? Limitations from rules really don't take that much training to cover, two weeks of Boxing sparring will make even the most knock-down focused Kyokushin student more than capable of defending their head from punches. While you might not be able to learn how to grapple in two weeks, two weeks sparring with grapplers will rapidly raise your ability to stop them from taking you down and allow you to continue resisting them on the ground.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Sept 10, 2013 17:57:05 GMT -5
On the flip side, why is BJJ not seen the same way without strikes? On the street you could be getting your face pounded in from full guard position. People don't comment about these things in modern martial arts but when they are present in TMAs, it's one of the first cons they point out.
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Post by lordunagi on Sept 11, 2013 0:04:40 GMT -5
Even though MMA has restrictions, it's not as restricting as most martial arts styles are. Boxing does not allow kicks, headbutts, grappling, and ground fighting whatsoever. Kickboxing/Muay Thai does not allow ground fighting but lets a bit of grappling/clinching. Kyokushin generally has no head punches/clinch/grappling. The list goes on and on. So comparing MMA to most of these martial arts styles makes MMA the most free form so far. Until something else comes along, this is the closest thing to the real deal. Even Krav Maga wouldn't let you nail people full force to the groin without protection.
When TMA points out theses things, their explanation of why this is done isn't because it makes sense, it's because so-and-so creator/master/sosai/founder said so and it's always been done this way. Like defense against a sword. What are the chances of that? Even more so, a lot of so called self defense is focused on counters for the attacks to the body. But even the most untrained people today aim for the face. Did people back in the day really choose to aim for the body rather than the face??
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Post by lordunagi on Sept 11, 2013 0:10:30 GMT -5
Pointing out something first does not mean a proper solution is guaranteed. Knowing martial arts does NOT mean you should depend on that entirely. You'd have to use your brain to. Use the situation to your advantage. If somebody was cranking your neck up against a fence on the streets and there's a crow bar right next to you, but you decided to try to tap out like you're still in the gym but get choked unconscious instead of using the crowbar on him, who's fault is that?
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 11, 2013 7:31:11 GMT -5
Watch Vale Tudo, groin shots are perfectly legal, as are eye gouges, fish-hooking, small joint manipulation and using the fingers to choke. People who compete in that format still often choose to go for body blows before head-shots because the vast majority of people instinctively cover their face when they're attacked, it doesn't take any kind of training to have that instinctive motion, people do it naturally. There's two responses that work exeedingly well to take advantage of that natural defense (There's a third too but it only works with gloves so it doesn't count). - Smack your opponent in the ribs until his hands come down to defend them then punch or kick his lights out. - Fake a punch at their head then attack their legs.
That's why I'm all for visiting other schools and joining in whatever competitions that other martial arts open up to students not of their style. I'm competitive at knockdown Kyokushin, but I'm also pretty competitive at other Karate competitions as well as Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wushu, Taekwondo, Boxing, Wrestling, Kenpo and MMA. If an organization hosts an open invitation tournament they immediately go in my good books, I don't compete to be excellent in any particular competition, nor do I train for that. I train to be able to adapt to any rule-set that gets put in front of me and not just abide and compete by the rules but bend them beyond recognition, that's why my lack of ability in no-strike BJJ is so frustrating to me, it's a rule-set I can't adapt to, that means it's a street situation I'd struggle with. Would a rule-bender like me pick up the crowbar and make a mess of my assailant? Possibly, possibly not. There's a three foot piece of oak dowel that's duct-taped beneath my serving bar in case of trouble, I've been involved in trouble several times and forgotten it each time, whose fault is that? Mine. I see the trouble and respond by jumping the bar, not ducking beneath it to get the club. Has it caused issue? I don't rightly know. I don't really have much experience with weapons so who is to say me grabbing the stick won't make things worse? I might only succeed in bringing the trouble a new way of trashing the bar. That MMA match was a scenario that is quite possible on the streets, not everybody punches for the head first, hell, not everybody even attacks by hitting first, jumping on a lone target and immediately going for a rear-naked would put a lot of people down with far less fuss than king-hitting them. Who is to say picking up a crowbar while you're half unconcious will do more than bring it within your aggressor's reach? You don't know the outcomes of these things until you're actually in that situation.
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