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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Sept 2, 2013 2:22:50 GMT -5
Switching to a southpaw stance as an orthodox fighter in MT isn't really encouraged unless you've got A LOT of ability in your regular stance first. I don't really switch unless I need to to kick.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Sept 2, 2013 13:56:08 GMT -5
I've trained orthodox ever since I started training in Kyokushin. I learned some combinations that required switching to the southpaw stance temporarily but I've only recently started training in the southpaw stance.
Even when I'm fighting orthodox I tend to kick a lot with my leading leg.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 17:54:07 GMT -5
Back in the day southpaw alhtough im right handed, just trained harder on that side because thats the way it was, comfortable with both, but resort to southpaw naturally or un-naturally how ever you want to look at it with martial arts, although on saying that when boxing i change to north? guess i just go with whats comfortable under the situation. honestly more prone to leaning over grasping for air, il leave all the fighting up too you young guys,lol.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Nov 7, 2013 23:20:08 GMT -5
Funny how things change. I have gone from a pretty traditional stance, to a modified traditional stance, to mixing things up to experiment, and back to a fully traditional stance over time. Each and every time I think "This is really working for me!" and then things change around again. It's like a cycle. Muay Thai is a simple style. Basic techniques that you make your own. But seriously, I swear there is a whole lifetime of study ahead of me even with this style. Even if the question is "what works best for ME?" The answer can change endlessly and I might never find the answer.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Nov 16, 2013 21:33:10 GMT -5
I tried a Shito Ryu traditional stance as advice during friendly sparring outside the dojo. Didn't suit me at all.
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Post by suckerpunch on Nov 17, 2013 12:39:28 GMT -5
Why do traditional schools emphasize ambidextrous stances? I mean, surely it's a better idea to train your best side instead of wasting your time training a side that you're not naturally inclined to use?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 15:47:29 GMT -5
Part and parcel of learning a specific system or style of training, if your a fighter you train to fight, my game days are over now i train for different reasons, whats the harm in keeping the other side balanced, but them again it comes down to the reason's your training i guess.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Nov 17, 2013 23:25:55 GMT -5
suckerpunch: That isn't necessarily true, sure you can train your dominant side to it's very best and you can be a good fighter but let's look at in perspective. If you injure your back leg (right leg) in orthodox stance, you lose the ability to throw the powerful back leg kick versus if you can switch to southpaw and deliver nearly the same power with your left. Also from a survey my friend did, about 2 in 10 people are left handed. This would mean that 80% approximately are right handed. Now assuming they fight orthodox, the chances of you fighting someone orthodox is high wouldn't it be beneficial to be able to transition between the two? Of course it's good to develop proficiency in your dominant hand but if you only train your dominant side you aren't a very a adaptable fighter and a non adaptable fighter is not a good fighter.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Nov 17, 2013 23:56:07 GMT -5
I occasionally switch stances just to play with people that aren't that good and make them deal with southpaw strategy (stepping to their outside and shooting lead hooks). Other than that, I stick with my orthodox stance for consistency.
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Post by suckerpunch on Nov 18, 2013 13:21:53 GMT -5
KyKarateka Ah, I'd completely disregarded kicking. I personally would never kick in a self defense situation, mainly because I'd probably trip. However, if you're talking about competitive fighting I'd agree with you entirely (apart from in Boxing, because switching stances is considered the ultimate newbie telltale sign). In any case, I disagree entirely on your second point. Eighty percent of people are right handed; therefore they fight orthodox.. how can you possibly say that transitioning is beneficial? Who in their right mind would switch to their weaker side to combat somebody on their stronger side? No, I would say that switching from orthodox to southpaw to fight an orthodox is a silly maneuver. Even in the case of natural southpaws, I would still advise that switching stances to fight the many numerous orthodox fighters is a very, very bad idea; southpaws have their own tactics to deal with orthodox fighters, as do orthodox fighters have for southpaws. Also, I believe your statement about being exclusively orthodox makes you less adaptable and a worse fighter is far from the truth. Now, I can't speak for other arts, but if you honestly have to resort to changing your strongest stance to be adaptable I'd ask you to go back to your training. Not only is switching stances dangerous as hell because of the split second that you'd be vulnerable (which many good fighters out there WILL exploit), but it's inefficient, too. Instead of using your energy to throw your most powerful and accurate attacks on your main stance, you would waste your energy on strikes from a weaker, less accurate stance. Have you ever fought for nine rounds or more? Because I'm sure you'll understand that at times like that, energy is crucial and wasting it is not an option. Sure, adaptability is great and all, but in the sense of actually training your weaker stance instead of the stance you'll actually use.. that's just inefficiency at it's greatest.
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Chino
Yellow Belt
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Post by Chino on Nov 18, 2013 18:33:10 GMT -5
Tyrone spong uses both stances in a fight to see which stance the opponent is most uncomfortable with and sticks with whichever stance once finding it out.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
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Post by KyKarateka on Nov 18, 2013 21:35:13 GMT -5
I said ASSUMING they choose to fight orthodox, which is logical for a right handed fighter.
Adaptability comes in all shapes and forms so yes there are many ways to be adaptable. However being able to fight in both stances give another tool for you to use. And if you build up strength on your opposite stance you can make it more powerful and accurate which is what we're talking about. Also I rarely every just switch, I usually transition stances while kicking.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Nov 19, 2013 23:36:18 GMT -5
I practice switching mostly during MMA so I can set up a takedown shoot from either side. I don't think it's flat out bad all the time. There is a time and a place for everything.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Nov 27, 2013 16:00:14 GMT -5
For a guy who calls himself Suckerpunch you seem to have missed the idea of deception. If you can stand up to somebody fighting from your poor side and they come to believe that's the best you can do it's going to be like blindsiding them when you swap to your better side and hit them with the best you can do. Also, training to hit well from both stances puts you at an advantage when the rules enable you to fight a dimensional match. People who only fight from one side limit what they can do and when they can do it and make themselves predictable, people who can use both sides do what they want when they want.
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Post by suckerpunch on Nov 28, 2013 12:45:09 GMT -5
You're all right; I completely forgot about other martial arts and of course the use of legs. My bad, sorry for the assumption. I'm just a boxer, the ideas of other martial arts are completely foreign to me. Sorry about that, I'll try to be more open-minded from now on.
However Odee, I can't help but think that, if you're talking about the sport of boxing only, you might be a little misinformed or inexperienced. Again, I must stress that I have no idea what tactics Thai Boxers or Karatekas use, this is from a boxing perspective only. Let me put it bluntly; if you honestly think that switching sides can be used as a deceptive technique, I'd wager that you haven't done enough pure boxing. Deception can be carried out in numerous ways, Odee, and most of them are way more effective than disadvantaging yourself in a fight by using a stance that you're not naturally inclined to be in. Okay, switching stances is a good tactic for sparring with those inexperienced guys in your gym, but try play that game when you're in the middle of a proper, competitive match? Your opponent will pick you apart. Ever notice that when switching, you're momentarily unbalanced and unprepared to punch or defend? Yeah; no balance or defense usually leads to a down when struck, or if you're really unlucky, a free ticket to the canvas. You might think that it's a good way of confusing someone but you're really just opening yourself up for a nice long ass-kicking.
I'm willing to admit that on the rare occasion and with enough careful thinking, switching stances can work out for the better in a competitive match. Not only that, but Sugar Ray Robinson, probably the greatest fighter of the last century, was able to switch stances. However, this was only because he was ambidextrous and good with both of his hands in either situation; not something he developed by training, something he already had. My final words are, unless you're naturally proficient with both hands, stay away from switching stances.
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