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Post by friendlyvirus on Jun 25, 2012 18:36:45 GMT -5
i was talking to my bro about Bas Rutten, and how he was bullied until he joined a TKD school and beat the bullies.
and then we started talking about bullies, and he told me that right now people is asking kids to be very mature, and that the approach is wrong, that people should teach bullied people how to defend themselves rather than trying to get the others to leave them alone.
so what is your opinion about all the bully stuff.
BTW, it might not have to do with anything but i hate that in most movies/tv series, you see that if the main character is bullied, or something, he makes far fetched plans to make the bully stop bullying him, or something like that, i think that if they want to teach kids a lesson is that fighting is wrong, but sometimes you got to stand for what you belive, and that if you bully someone, you have to accept that sometime youll find someone that is not gonna like it and maybe kick your sorry ass.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jun 25, 2012 19:17:20 GMT -5
society needs to change to where there are no bullys but until then if someone tries to bully me I say let them try and they can deal with the consequences.
I joined a gang when I was a kid because I was getting bullied and got some help but it turned out to just lead to more problems and getting stabbed and all sorts of other bad things.
Violence only brings more violence I've experienced it go from bullying to killing 1st hand and it didn't stop there peoples brothers and friends got involved and now I'm glad I'm on the other end of the country.
The problem is pride and no one can swallow it so if they try and beat someone up and lose they can't deal with that failure and have to beat him up worse now maybe even with a weapon because it can increase their odds of messing you up.
At the end of the day everyone want's their egos appeased but aren't willing to pay any respect because this is 2012 and as long as everyone gets a bj & pizza while watching their favorite tv shows and everyone thinks they are right (weither they are or not isn't important) they are happy and don't care about what's going on in the world.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 25, 2012 19:54:50 GMT -5
Why not approach the issue from both sides? Not everything is black or white. Weed out the bullies in society and get them some damn counseling and teach the bullied how to overcome it.
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odee
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Post by odee on Jun 25, 2012 20:22:04 GMT -5
I'm all for teaching the bullied how to cope but trying to educate the bullies is pointless. Bullies are something you just have to overcome. If a bully just stops the victim only gets relief until the bully starts again or the next bully comes along. The victim hasn't learned anything. If you overcome a bully then there is more chance of you standing up to the next.
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Post by friendlyvirus on Jun 26, 2012 0:50:46 GMT -5
the thing with a bully free world seems very utopic to me. of course i agree that the bullyng should be stoped, just like any other injustice, but also i agree with odee on that it's a "give me a fish" situation.
also there are diferent degrees of bullying, some of them stops when the bullied gets tired and fights back, some other are like what chef said, sadly, 14 year old boys with guns ain't something as rare as one would like. but these guys enter in a diferent category, they arent common bullies, they are criminal that should be put in jail.
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Keyboard Warrior
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on Jun 26, 2012 4:34:12 GMT -5
It's a complex issue. Like Glutton said, it isn't black and white. Treating bullies like criminals is wrong. I can say I was a bully for some parts of my life, and I can say I was bullied as well. I found that when I bullied people, then I stopped becoming the target of bullies, and became popular. Kids perpetuate that shit by encouraging it, in which case the bully is rewarded. Can you blame alot of kids that turn to that? And then there are some kids that have criminal branded on their forehead. It really depends.
I think with alot of issues in life, they need to be treated on a case by case basis. Having a zero tolerance policy for everything is just plain silly. Whether its for bullying or standing up to a bully. Alot of the times, things can be solved by talking with your children. Most parents view their child perhaps as the victim, but are surprised to find out that they are indeed the bully's.
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Post by friendlyvirus on Jun 26, 2012 12:10:21 GMT -5
I can say I was a bully for some parts of my life WAS? nah, just kidding. yeah me too, i was a bully and also bullied. so i know what its from both sides. and on that i can understand what my bro told me, about asking kids to be mature. when that happens a lot of us really dont care about the other guy, its quite common in kids to dont think about cosecuences, if so, they wouldn´t do such stupid things kids are known to do. im not against teaching kids morals, actually it would be really good. but also teaching the bullied how to cope with it is really important. By the way, maybe my opinion depends on diferent culture mindsets, like for example when i was bullied, an uncle of mine told me "no son abusivos, son abuzados" (it means that they are not bullys, they are only people who knows to take a chance), yeah in mexico the bullied peoples fault is quite more commonly noted, also here as far as im concerned when a bullied fights back in the schools, the principals and teachers are more condescending on them.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 26, 2012 15:35:58 GMT -5
I'm all for teaching the bullied how to cope but trying to educate the bullies is pointless. Bullies are something you just have to overcome. If a bully just stops the victim only gets relief until the bully starts again or the next bully comes along. The victim hasn't learned anything. If you overcome a bully then there is more chance of you standing up to the next. I was a really terrible kid. I picked on other kids when I was in grade school, often violently attacking them completely out of the blue. I even hit a teacher that was pregnant in the stomach with my desk chair. I'm glad that there were people who didn't think educating me was "pointless". I was put in counseling and with time it helped me completely change from a total asshat to a decent kid.
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odee
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Post by odee on Jun 26, 2012 18:28:46 GMT -5
Glutton the kind of education that would have stopped you much quicker is a punch in the mouth from one of your victims maybe several more until you were lying in a pool of your own blood. If you just stopped of your own accord I'm betting every person you attacked has found and suffered new bullies since. I was the bully victim for six years, that was when I copped forced conscription onto the football team and discovered I was bigger and stronger than most people, including the bully and I can assure you beating my bully into the ground was one of the best things that happened to me. Since then I've never had a bully last more than a few minutes and I haven't even used violence to do it. It doesn't matter if it's by violence or some other method, the victim needs to stop the bully personally or they'll just keep getting new ones.
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Post by peppermillk on Jun 27, 2012 4:23:01 GMT -5
Bullies are a natural part of life. U can't get rid of them its part of our species to have alpha males or females too I suppose that just do things their way. So I agree that its the victims of bullies u have to attend to, teach them to stand up for themsleves. Even outside of school, in the workplace and in general life there r bullies if u don't learn how to deal with them in ur school years then ur very suseptible to a life full of shit outcomes when u run into them again and again, which u will
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Keyboard Warrior
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on Jun 27, 2012 4:38:37 GMT -5
Bullies are a natural part of life. U can't get rid of them its part of our species to have alpha males or females too I suppose that just do things their way. So I agree that its the victims of bullies u have to attend to, teach them to stand up for themsleves. Even outside of school, in the workplace and in general life there r bullies if u don't learn how to deal with them in ur school years then ur very suseptible to a life full of shit outcomes when u run into them again and again, which u will Some bullies aren't even apart of the alpha male/female ladder....Some don't even care about that stuff. Some are completely off the radar, and exist in places we'd never even dream about, such as that story about the special ed teacher, bullying the autistic child. She really had nothing to prove with any of the other students. She just did it because it probably made her feel good. Bullies exist anywhere. They could be our friends, our parents, our siblings, our bosses, our teachers, our peers.....they exist in all facets of life. All of their motives are different. Some want power. Some want approval from peers, some just do it because it makes them feel good. Sometimes a part of life is learning to either face them, or learn to live with them.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jul 4, 2012 12:32:02 GMT -5
It may sound ideal to educate bullies and get them some counseling, but in reality that will not help them all nor will it end all bullying. Some grow up and mature and stop bullying. Others continue their bullying well into the adult years. Many bully are being counseled, but choose to continue their negative actions. Some know what they are doing is wrong. Other justify what they are doing and some doing even believe what they are doing is wrong.
In m opinion bullying comes down to a person morals. We all have different set a values and morals.
While counseling can be good there must be some consequences for every action. If there are no consequences you are likely to repeat the actions. If the consequences are not strong enough you are likely to repeat the actions.
There are cultures that if a man steals with his right hand the consequence is to have the right hand cut off. That hasn't ended crimes, but the crime rate is much lower there than places where you only get a warning or a time out.
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Post by youxia on Jul 5, 2012 17:37:09 GMT -5
I think it's a similar situation with criminals. Quite a lot of the time it's not their fault, a lot of prisoners are actually just like little boys and made bad decisions because they had a rough surroundings growing up. Although of course this doesn't account for them all.
But if we take a step back and leave the emotional involvement behind and look at them as people, examine the motives and put yourself in their shoes, it's probably understandable. Even if there isn't a sob story behind it, every single person believes they are perfectly rational.
Although I have no idea how to deal with it, do you let nature run it's course or intervene?
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Post by youxia on Jul 5, 2012 17:39:07 GMT -5
Plus humiliating or making someone feel small just isn't right. Think about how it feels, then think again.
No one likes being abused, seeing this in ourselves and others, we should see an eye for an eye is just harmful.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jul 5, 2012 23:38:01 GMT -5
I think it's a similar situation with criminals. Quite a lot of the time it's not their fault, a lot of prisoners are actually just like little boys and made bad decisions because they had a rough surroundings growing up. Although of course this doesn't account for them all. But if we take a step back and leave the emotional involvement behind and look at them as people, examine the motives and put yourself in their shoes, it's probably understandable. Even if there isn't a sob story behind it, every single person believes they are perfectly rational. Although I have no idea how to deal with it, do you let nature run it's course or intervene? It is good in a way to put yourself in the shoes of someone else. I agree that criminal make poor choices, but we shouldn't make excuses for them. Sure some not all grow up in bad surroundings, but even so they still have choices. They chose to do the wrong things. Most know the difference between wrong and right. It is a cop out to say that I'm a product of my environment. Many other grew up with those same circumstance or worst and chose to rise above their circumstances. There are those that grow up with a silver spoon in their mouths that make bad choices and become criminals. Look at Michael Jackson, James Belushi, Lindsey Lohan, Elvis and many others superstars. Most people think they have it made, but they bad bad choices, even criminal choices. Some ended up in rehab multiple times. Some ended up overdosing. No one forced them to make those choices We all have choices.
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