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Post by kokoro on Jun 27, 2012 9:36:57 GMT -5
-Kyokushin This is in reply to odee question about bunkai for the opening movement kata I'm starting a new thread for this since its not exactly about the original one. For the bunkai to this kata it may very well be that Oyama took the meaning literal of the opening movement and is actually using it to view the sky. the head motion in the opening looks very awkward. Kanku is suppose to be a night fighting kata, where you fight in the dark and feel your opponent as well as use deception. To begin with: how i interpret bunkai, or at least the guide I use: the opening movement is often interpreted on how a fight begins, it can be again one person or two. It can start as a push, a grab, a strike, etc. The bunkai should be able to be interpreted with most of f them. often times natural stance means the move can be done from various stances, -in the opening movement if the person comes in with a punch, you hands come up to do a circular block and step away from the punch (into his open side so right hand throws you step to his left), he throws a second punch you do the next motion wrapping his arm and striking or breaking. -your opponent grabs your wrist you arms come up breaking the grip then grabbing the wrist as you come back down going into the next move were you step out and throw. The explanation may not suit what i had in mind i may have to add some picks let me know, how it sounds too you. Ill add some more applications as i come up with them
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 29, 2012 9:24:48 GMT -5
You might want to look at this throw. This could be an application for the 2 hands at the top. youtu.be/WrcJgYKDJUw
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 29, 2012 9:49:46 GMT -5
Also look at 2:09 and 2:35 and 3:30of this video. It is long. youtu.be/odpCJtVBsosI think some of the mma guys will like this video too
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Post by kokoro on Jun 29, 2012 18:00:51 GMT -5
well the first video answers one of my questions, i was thinking of a similar move i was going to try with my students
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odee
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Post by odee on Jun 29, 2012 19:37:21 GMT -5
It's possible. Oyama did practice Aiki-jujutsu and Judo, it's just that Shotokan's applications are so simple and if you're right Oyama has made it more complicated. From what I've been told about him he wasn't the kind of guy to over-complicate things or turn fighting moves into pointless gestures like actually viewing the sun. I mean even the Kyokushin bow is a defensive technique. Maybe I'm over-thinking it but like I said it has bothered me since I first learned Kanku.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 30, 2012 1:26:34 GMT -5
I don't know what Oyama was thinking. I don't have enough knowledge on that. But these are what came to my mind. There was another technique that I've been thinking about too, but I don't remember what it was called. One of my instructors earlier on earned his black belt in shotakan but he was helping in our dojo which is shorin ryu. I recall one day he was teaching me some thing from shotakan and or from things he did in special forces. He called the technique something like Mount Fudi Toki. Of course I don't know the spelling and I'm not sure of the name, but it was a 2 hand technique with the hands high, but you lock the elbow over you shoulder or something like that. I have forgotten how to do it. I trained with him for 6 or more years, but now haven't seen him in more than 6 years.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 30, 2012 1:39:51 GMT -5
There was one kata that we used to do that wasn't one of our 18 kata. My instructor liked it so we had to learn it. There was really only one or 2 other people that had to learn it because of our rank. They moved out of town and we haven't done it since. I don't know what style it came from, but it started like that kata. But the opening moved we were taught it was breath control training.
Now I'm wondering if my sensei remember it. I may have to ask him.
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Post by kokoro on Jun 30, 2012 6:12:41 GMT -5
there is a lot of jutsu in karate kata, its always been there
bunkai from any system can be simple of complex, there are various levels of bunkai. i havent had a chance to look into oyama's background usually i start with the origin of the kata which is kusanku and work my way though how it was passed on to.
kusanku kata is one of the core kata from okinawa like passai there are several versions of it, i believe if i remember this correctly about 4 to 6
i created a new thread because bunkai has lot to it and wanted to see if any others had others
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odee
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Post by odee on Jun 30, 2012 18:44:30 GMT -5
Good point Kokoro, maybe Oyama took it back to the original use. Shotokan is modified off an older Karate for Japanese use. I'm going to have to look back into Shotokan development.
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aaronj
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Post by aaronj on Jul 1, 2012 15:52:26 GMT -5
This is a variant of the Kanku Dai kata. It is Kanku Sho. It's vastly different. This isn't the best performance of the kata, but it was the only time I could film myself several years ago, and I was comming off a mugging injury... I survived, and left my attacker unconscious. Hell yeah! youtu.be/840yHh032fc
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odee
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Post by odee on Jul 1, 2012 17:29:02 GMT -5
Congrats on surviving the mugging.
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aaronj
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Post by aaronj on Jul 1, 2012 18:12:23 GMT -5
Thanks
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Post by kokoro on Jul 1, 2012 19:46:25 GMT -5
congrats on surviving, i hope you didnt accidentally step on his face while helping him up. i seem to have trouble with that. clumps me.
maybe i dont remember history too well or need to brush up on it from my understanding the original kata was kusanku,, and kanku dai and sho came from that. via itosu sensei
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aaronj
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Post by aaronj on Jul 1, 2012 23:05:45 GMT -5
It's definitely a cloudy subject, the origin of Kankusho. Many attribute it to Anko Itosu. This is the widest accepted theory. However, there are suggestions otherwise that it may in fact be the original Channan of which the Pinan kata stem from. The physical evidence links the kata to Yongchun White Crane. It's said to have come to Okinawa from Kosho-kun in the mid 1700's (1761 interview with Shirohira Pechin in "Oshima Hikki"). There is also a theory that the two kata could have been because of a labeling choice, in calling Kankusho, Channan after its source. - in part sourced from the IRKRS.
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