aaronj
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Yondan - Shurite Karate Jitsu, Chen Taijiquan
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Post by aaronj on Jul 14, 2012 12:11:25 GMT -5
Because, they don't know any good Chinese martial artists personally. Because, Chinese martial arts dominated the silver screen. Because of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Michelle Yeoh, Donnie Yuen, etc...
The many systems of kung fu are not useless against anything. It is the practitioners themselves and the schools they train in that cause the art to be useless.
The statement of a system being useless itself is just asinine. It's like somebody trying to use a smart phone without knowing how. They get pissed because it doesn't work and call it a useless piece of junk.
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Post by friendlyvirus on Jul 17, 2012 13:19:58 GMT -5
I know tons about Gongfu. People don't say Kungfu (western way of saying Gongfu) in China, they say Gongfu so just letting you know a little fact. Shaolin isn't a style either. It's a monastery in China where they feature various styles of Gongfu. No style is useless too. Though there are some Gongfu styles I prefer like all 3 internal arts (Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, and Taichiquan), Long Fist, and Jun Fan Gung Fu. The others I don't really care for yet they are not useless. so, what is the style the shaolin do? BTW i thought that in china they called it wu shu. PD:KW you know you want to post here.
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aaronj
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Yondan - Shurite Karate Jitsu, Chen Taijiquan
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Post by aaronj on Jul 18, 2012 19:50:50 GMT -5
The Shaolin practice a number of different systems. It can be called Wu Shu or Kung Fu. Wu Shu specifically and traditionally, was meant for fighting practices. However, in today's time, it's become more associated with fighting acrobatics, and film stunt work. That being said, Beijing is trying to reorganize wu shu so that it harkens back to the days of real martial practices.
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ZenGenesis
Orange Belt
~As Artes Marciais 7 Anos~
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Post by ZenGenesis on Jul 23, 2012 12:08:27 GMT -5
Isn't Shaolin just a monastery like Wudang? They both practice several styles of Kung Fu. Shaolin isn't actually a style to my knowledge of it.
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aaronj
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Yondan - Shurite Karate Jitsu, Chen Taijiquan
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Post by aaronj on Aug 1, 2012 1:48:02 GMT -5
The Shaolin monastery is indeed a place. They do practice many different systems of martial art, but they also practice martial arts in their own particular method. Thus the differences in systems like White Crane...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 3:03:59 GMT -5
If Kung Fu is so useless then why do they teach Sanshou to the Chinese army and police?
If it is so uesless then why was Tai Chi Chuan created by a Ming dynasty general? And why was it taught to the Imperial guards (Yellow Banners brigade) of the Qing dynasty?
And why was Wing Chun used by Ming rebels against the Qing dynasty army and for assassination (red opera group)?
Kung Fu when taught and trained correctly are practical and efficient martial arts. However like McDojos, McDojangs and Boxing/Kickboxing boot classes/fitness classes, sport and health Kung Fu can be unpractical money making schemes though still good for fitness.
Note: My Tai Chi Chuan teacher is 65 and when we spar or push hands I can't throw or out grapple him. And I have had solid training in Judo and some BJJ.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 3:12:11 GMT -5
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rikashiku
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I'm watching.
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 1, 2012 3:27:42 GMT -5
Shaolin only practice 72 martial arts, 18 of which are based on weapons.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 1, 2012 3:54:14 GMT -5
Why was Wing Chun used by Ming rebels against the Qing dynasty army and for assassination (red opera group)? Wing Chun is a bad example for just about anything, especially since many people who practice it now are morons. Wing Chun was effective because it was a martial art that could be taught to large numbers of people in a short amount of time, cheap and nasty in the most complimentary sense of the expression. Wing Chun was a martial art that had been cut back to the bone "Spam punches, don't kick higher than the groin because that takes flexibility and balance that we don't have time to work on. Grab crotches, gouge eyes and kick knees". If you learn Karate, Wushu or Kempo at a military pace it takes two years to reach a basic ability level (Shodan), you have to get flexibility, power, knowledge and experience. If you learn Wing Chun at a military level it takes six months, no flexibility required, fewer techniques to learn. In short the very basics of fighting knowhow. Here is where Glutton is absolutely correct. Wing Chun was not designed to fight other martial artists on a level playing field, as a fight continues past the initial exchanges the greater depths of other martial arts begin to show through with their greater and more flexible attacking options. But as the old saying goes "If you're in a fair fight you haven't prepared properly". Then you have the idiots today who believe Wing Chun is ever so complicated and scientific and only their linage does it properly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 4:44:28 GMT -5
I mentioned Wing Chun only as an example. It can be practical if done and taught correctly. T he example of using it because it was easy to learn also shows that it had to be used (why else teach it to large numbers in a a short time?) and therefore was used. It wouldnt have been used if it was shit. A bit like a 18th century version of MCMAP? I generalise of course.
Street fights and self defense should never take longer than a minute or two at most so why worry about Wing Chun allegedly not being designed to be used on a level playing field as the fight passes the initial exchanges? Disarm to attack and run! Don't stand and exchange, self defense is not the ring/octagon.
And Wing Chun is a great example of the danger of McKwoons and dodgy Kung Fu schools. Kung Fu is great but can be as crap as a kiddies or ATA Taekwondo school if it only focuses on fitness, health or the mystic of Kung Fu. Karate, Boxing, Taekwondo, MMA and Kung Fu can all be crap if not trained as a martial art and for combat. I have seen both and I know Wing Chun is practical. I have used it and seen it used.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 4:47:48 GMT -5
odee....."Wing Chun is a bad example for just about anything, especially since many people who practice it now are morons." I am sorry that you have only seen the bad of Wing Chun. I can assure you that it is great if done right. You live in Sydney? If so, check out Sifu Ric Spain. He is very good despite being of the William Cheung lineage hehe:)
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 1, 2012 5:54:38 GMT -5
I used to live in Sydney, now I'm on the Cane Toad side of the boarder in a lovely little dump called Toowoomba. Out of the four Sydney Chun schools that I visited only one teacher didn't go straight on the offensive about the other three being of false linages. I don't think the guy's last name was Spain though, it was nearly seven years ago but the name Morris seems right. Maybe there is a second respectful teacher. Linage doesn't matter to me; if he's good he's good, if he's not he's not. I'm only two teachers removed from Oyama and I've trained at Kyokushin HQ in Japan. There are Kyokushin students who are five teachers removed from Oyama and never left Australia who can stomp my ass into the ground. What you can do matters far more than linage in my opinion.
Anything is great when it's done right. Like I said it was a great style because it was hacked back to the bare necessities of hurting people and traditionally that means more time is spent perfecting the techniques you know rather than half learning lots of different moves. It could be learned in a short amount of time, perfect for a hastily recruited and formed army.
What I'm getting at is that most modern Chun students seem to miss that point and think it's complex when by Martial Arts standards Wing Chun is closest to Boxing. Boxers don't learn a huge amount technique-wise, they don't spend heaps of time working on flexibility but they spend hours upon hours perfecting those techniques they have learned to the point where other Martial Artists respect and even fear the Boxer's ability in that area. Chun has lost a lot of that respect because most of it's practitioners have missed that point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 17:53:35 GMT -5
Many Wing Chun students have lost the plot, that is true. Same for others styles as well. It is a sad development when money or 'mystic complexity' come first.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 4, 2012 10:50:27 GMT -5
true said fraiser!
too many people are obsessed with mysticism and making money to actually train to fight and a fight happens on the ground too so it's the practitioners fault for not training it.
if you are training to fight a certain way then your not training how to fight the real way because anything can happen...
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Post by toughguy™ on Aug 15, 2012 14:33:53 GMT -5
Lot of people think Kung Fu is useless because, of the training and the movements, they use. Kung Fu is lot to be understood and realized.
. . . . . Good Luck!
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