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Post by youxia on Jul 28, 2012 7:44:13 GMT -5
I have this book called "Authentic Shaolin Heritage, Training Methods of 72 Arts of Shaolin". It's pretty old, it was made in 1934, and has various quotes from monks, and direct participation by "Head of the Shaolin Monastery Reverend Miao Xing- The Golden Arhat- one of the best Shaolin fighters of all time".
Amongst all the training methods for strengthening the body and stuff you'd expect, there are large sections devoted to things I'd never realised existed, such as Shaolin swimming and underwater fighting techniques. Then theres things for improving eyesight, hearing and even things like your tounge and teeth.
Has anyone ever heard of this kind of stuff?
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Post by youxia on Jul 30, 2012 7:29:43 GMT -5
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 17, 2012 19:52:54 GMT -5
wow I never noticed this before that's stuff's awesome I never would have thought about some either.
now I have to start training my ears to listen to a pin drop lol
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Post by kokoro on Sept 17, 2012 20:28:48 GMT -5
i forgot i have the first one in pdf, i'll load it on my ipad thanks. i dint have the second one thought thanks for that one. now if you have something on how kiai tones or sound effect strikes that i might be interested in. i believe this also has its roots in kung fu. just haven't had time to look for info on the subject. there may also be more to it in the terms of acupuncture and healing as well. im not sure how much i believe in this part yet. but for the most part in the okinawan arts it is very rarely taught any more. at least from my limited understanding of it
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 17, 2012 20:34:06 GMT -5
kokoro- in kung fu we do kiai but it doesn't have a name it's just referred to as proper breathing technique. and we don't scream like drunk chimpanzees either lol the noise we make comes from the diaphragm compressing the air so fast & hard the resulting noise is a amplified exhale. apparently that's the real way it's supposed to be done in karate too but too many scream & yell while being all tense not allowing them selves to be relaxed.
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Post by kokoro on Sept 17, 2012 21:28:12 GMT -5
Karate is the same way it is not a scream but from the diaphragm just like Kung fu. But some one recently told me we don't kiai right it isn't deep enough from the diaphragm and should be much deeper. the tone in the kiai it self adds to the strike the particular tone he told me effects the organ you are stiking.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 17, 2012 22:48:15 GMT -5
We do it from the very bottom even using the abs to force it up from underneath. the tone in the kiai it self adds to the strike the particular tone he told me effects the organ you are stiking. since every tissues density varies & that's what makes the vibration that's caused by sound it would have to have a different pitch & tone for every organ ranging vastly from super high to low. it's a little hard to believe that a kiai with the exact same tone & pitch from the same timbre would affect all vibrational patterns in a physical object... even tensing up & loosening your body would change the vibration pattern affecting it's frequency. I was told it's supposed to be so loud it can be heard up to a mile away and anyone within hitting range would be disoriented by the sound causing all sorts of adverse affects like dizziness & deafness.
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Post by kokoro on Sept 20, 2012 18:45:29 GMT -5
We do it from the very bottom even using the abs to force it up from underneath. since every tissues density varies & that's what makes the vibration that's caused by sound it would have to have a different pitch & tone for every organ ranging vastly from super high to low. yes thats how it was explained to me each organ has a different tone. at least it was in a brief discussion. i wasnt too interested in it at the time. its still not very hi on my list at thispoint
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 22, 2012 4:52:34 GMT -5
This is my first time hearing it is be supposed to be loud enough to be heard from a mile away. I was initially taught that it is used to off balance the attacker fir a split second. Basically startle them. I used to practice making people jumpy with my kiai....lol But that was only a fraction of its purpose.
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Post by youxia on Sept 23, 2012 15:43:51 GMT -5
Intresting that should come up actually, I do remember having a book which talks about different sounds and tones ect. for kiai, I'll look into it for you
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Post by youxia on Sept 23, 2012 16:15:14 GMT -5
Guy I know who was a practitionor of Shaolin animals told me at his school they called it "Fasheng" which he told me means "Release shout", and said they do noises depending on the animal they are imitating, e.g. For a dragon move they might make a "Shsss" and make an expolsive "Her-it!" kind of noise, for snake they'd make a "shssk" sound as they shot their fingers out, or for dragon they'd make a deep growling "Yaaaaa" sound.
Okay, as for organs this is what I know-
‡u "Xu" Said like "She" with the lips rounded- like a deep sigh or hissing sound. Something to do with chi in the liver.
ºÇ "He" Prounced "Huh", supposedly should sound like a yawn or laugh. Again not sure on the details but something to do with chi in the heart.
ºô "Hu" Like saying "who" in English, like a sigh or exhalation, again, something to do with the spleen or pancreas.
…ä "Si" Sounds more like "Sir", to do with the lungs.
´µ "Chui" Like saying "Chway", like a blasting lound noise, some relation to kidney.
Îû "Xi" Said like "She", as with first, but with tounge high and forward. Some realtion to "Tripe burner" (Near the head, heart and lower stomach- hara/dantien)
Really wish I could be more specific but this is the extent of my knowledge.
In my Wing Chun school we are told to just breathe relaxed and naturally, as I beleive is the case with many other schools.
But I don't really belive in saying the explosive noises from the diaphragm are wrong, it's just a different tool. I heard of some okinawan karate sensei who was teaching his class on a beach during a storm, and let out this kiai which tore through the storm, then laughed at how much he frightened his students. And back to the Shaolin style practitioner, it relates to intent and pumping yourself up too, lol it sounds kind of funny, but he said his teacher told them when giving a tiger claw strike to imagine they were a hungry tiger, and let the tigers ferocity come out in the attack and go all wide eyed ect.
As for Bruce Lee's chicken noises.... I have no idea
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 25, 2012 16:28:58 GMT -5
@jw- maybe I should re word what I said, apparently a master was able to be heard up to a mile a way with his kiai and it was just a violent burst of air from his diaphragm & if he can do it then it's plausible for others to do it but it would take a lot of practice.
@wuxia- what you see in a bruce lee movie is the opposite of jeet kune do & jun fan gong fu and there are no chicken noises... he did it to look bad @$$ on screen lol
and I didn't know about that from 5 animal form but it makes sense they are all different tools that do different things but they are related so the uninitiated could get easily confused.
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Post by youxia on Sept 25, 2012 17:09:26 GMT -5
lol yeah i've heard what bruce did in movies wasn't really a good representation of actual Jun Fan. Correct me if im wrong, but i saw someone doing Jun Fan and it looked like a very agressive and forward Wing Chun (dunno if it was just his individual mix or what)
and 5 animals guy wasn't too experienced so it's quite likley he wasn't 100% on all the noises business lol
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 25, 2012 19:40:09 GMT -5
Of course it looks like wing chun because that was his main style, some people even call it bruce lee wing chun as a joke because jun fan gung fu translates to bruce lee's kung fu to denominate the lineage.
There are basically 4 versions of jun fan because of his constant training in different styles and moving around so students couldn't follow him unfortunately and they range from literally wing chun he learned from ip man to what I call wrestleboxing when he died.
They are all basically wing chun variations since wing chun itself is a very free & loose art that varies drastically from lineage to lineage but lee just took it a step further by doing what chinese martial arts have been doing for thousands of years, cross training with other great fighters!!!!!! it's a new concept here in the west though... even with people who train eastern martial arts lol
But yeah the core is wc & fancing with boxing, muay thai, judo, eskrima added.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 26, 2012 22:19:35 GMT -5
I can understand the being heard a mile a way. It might be an exaggeration,but who knows. I have a pretty loud one when I desire to make it loud. But I don't do know how it would sound if someone is a mile a way. Somebody might hear it. It kind of makes me want to test the theory.
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