Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 20, 2012 18:34:39 GMT -5
This thread gets it's premise from a thread in the Modern Forums about aliveness, but it seems that aliveness doesn't only apply to Modern arts so I'm pulling a discussion here.
youxia said:
"Hi guys I'd just like to contribute with my experience from Wing Chun.
I was discussing Chi sau
(which if you haven't seen done properly looks like some weird touching, followed by what looks like very close range sparring with hands, this video at points demonstrates it well- www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3RdYkY3c_0&feature=youtu.be&fb_source=message), with my Sifu and he said the reason chi sau is played rather than sparring
-although sparring is part of the system, but for advanced students, called lut sau.-
is that if you put beginners in a situation with full speed and power thrown in, technique goes out the window. So you need to get techniques down before trying to fight with them
Don't get me wrong, chi sau is unscripted and fast, but you don't actually get hit.
Ip Man himself said " Lut Sau Kin Kung Fu", meaning "Real Kung Fu can be seen from Free Sparring".
Sorry if I'm not supposed to post Traditional experience in the Modern part, but thought this was relevant."
To which I replied:
"Yup, wrong section. That's a big part of the Modern style mindset in my exprience. Whether you start sparring right away or at an advanced level, there's no avoiding having your technique fly out the window. You don't wait to spar until you've been doing other things for a year. You start sparring RIGHT AWAY and focus on trying NOT to let your form go down the drain while you do so. It's worked outstandingly well for Boxers, Muay Thai stylists, many Karateka, etc, and I'd be willing to bet money that it'd work better for Wing Chun stylists as well.
Remember that sparring doesn't mean going straight into pounding your sparring partners face into the floor. Sparring and fighting are not completely identical. You need to start out with more mild contact and use sparring as a tool to help you learn to use proper technique under pressure. Then as you get better at sparring, that pressure increases. There's no reason to wait. That's a big difference between the modern mindset and the traditional mindset. Too much philosophical thinking and theorizing about how best to build a fighter, but not enough experimenting with different training methods to see if those theories really hold up."
The discussion can now continue here. Anybody can feel free to contribute!
youxia said:
"Hi guys I'd just like to contribute with my experience from Wing Chun.
I was discussing Chi sau
(which if you haven't seen done properly looks like some weird touching, followed by what looks like very close range sparring with hands, this video at points demonstrates it well- www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3RdYkY3c_0&feature=youtu.be&fb_source=message), with my Sifu and he said the reason chi sau is played rather than sparring
-although sparring is part of the system, but for advanced students, called lut sau.-
is that if you put beginners in a situation with full speed and power thrown in, technique goes out the window. So you need to get techniques down before trying to fight with them
Don't get me wrong, chi sau is unscripted and fast, but you don't actually get hit.
Ip Man himself said " Lut Sau Kin Kung Fu", meaning "Real Kung Fu can be seen from Free Sparring".
Sorry if I'm not supposed to post Traditional experience in the Modern part, but thought this was relevant."
To which I replied:
"Yup, wrong section. That's a big part of the Modern style mindset in my exprience. Whether you start sparring right away or at an advanced level, there's no avoiding having your technique fly out the window. You don't wait to spar until you've been doing other things for a year. You start sparring RIGHT AWAY and focus on trying NOT to let your form go down the drain while you do so. It's worked outstandingly well for Boxers, Muay Thai stylists, many Karateka, etc, and I'd be willing to bet money that it'd work better for Wing Chun stylists as well.
Remember that sparring doesn't mean going straight into pounding your sparring partners face into the floor. Sparring and fighting are not completely identical. You need to start out with more mild contact and use sparring as a tool to help you learn to use proper technique under pressure. Then as you get better at sparring, that pressure increases. There's no reason to wait. That's a big difference between the modern mindset and the traditional mindset. Too much philosophical thinking and theorizing about how best to build a fighter, but not enough experimenting with different training methods to see if those theories really hold up."
The discussion can now continue here. Anybody can feel free to contribute!