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Post by kokoro on Jun 11, 2013 7:04:27 GMT -5
That last part was suppose to be deleted. I tend to ramble on pain meds too much. I deleted that remark
Yes drugs will kill all pain, but I'm not talking about pain, I'm talking about the body's auto resonance, which drugs won't over rid. There are a few, one was the technique I described a while back were you plug a finger into the throat and push down, drugs won't effect the body's reaction to this. I have seen people take off running with a bone penetrating there leg, until he bleed out and passed out from blood loss. There are a very few thing the body must react to no matter what the conditions. Your blood needs to flow, you need to bleed, and your nervous system still needs to be able to send single through the body, even if you can't feel pain. When you knock some one out, it is due to a concussion, slowing the blood down to the brain, or cutting off the oxygen. Those are the most common and easiest. The more uncommon is and more difficult is to send organs into shock. If you know where to place a percussion strike it can be just as effective as a choke.
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odee
Global Moderator
Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
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Post by odee on Jun 11, 2013 16:47:10 GMT -5
Oh, I get it, you mean like ear-bashing. It doesn't matter if you feel it or not your balance is still gone. I know trying to hit someone with a cupped hand and a broad strike isn't easy, I know I attack people's shoulders trying to bruise the muscle and slow the arm down, same story with low kicks and legs...I've never tried to pin someone's throat with my fingers though, my guess would be that it's kind of similar to the reason I always forget the club under my bar when I go help the bouncers, details escape me when I'm geared up for action.
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Post by the tank on Jun 12, 2013 20:46:10 GMT -5
I personally think that this question can only be answered from experience.
The first time I took a grappling class (no-gi bjj), I was baffled on how lost I was, and the only thing that kept me from being submitted dozes of times was pure brute strength, needless to say I was sore for days.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 13, 2013 18:55:12 GMT -5
Been there twice now. I tried BJJ like 5 years ago and JUST started it up again from scratch. It had been so long since I first tried it that it was all new again. Now I'm fully signed up and learning to actually do some stuff. A little known fact about myself is that I have a previous history with Aikido as well as Judo. I did some Aikido in High School alongside the Kung Fu I did. Never took a Dan rank, but I made good progress in it and I thought I could say that I "knew how to grapple" from it. In about 2007 I tried BJJ and that's when I discovered that Aikido left me with literally NO tools that prepared me for a fight on the ground. Later on I also took up Judo which left me with enough to submit people that knew nothing, but one day in BJJ again recently showed me that even though we studied Ne Waza in Judo I STILL didn't have a ghost of a chance against the AVERAGE WHITE BELT in BJJ. People write off ground focused styles too easily in my opinion, and I've seen the false sense of security that comes from learning a couple of silly techniques for "anti-grappling" or "anti-wrestling" too many times and know from experience that 99.9% of these techniques that come from OTHER styles don't work the way they're intended to. I don't know why more people haven't realized that the best way to learn how not to be dominated by a grappler is to do grappling and learn to understand it even if it isn't your primary style.
Seriously, some people (especially on Yahoo) act like cross training in some grappling to round out their skills is a cardinal sin and that they're practically "lowering" themselves by learning it. I just don't get it. And don't even get me started on all of the liars that spout on about how they've been training for months and have already beaten up BJJ black belts.
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KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
Posts: 233
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Post by KyKarateka on Jun 13, 2013 20:17:04 GMT -5
A martial art that focuses on ground training and a martial art that does more variety of combat will have varying success depending on the circumstances. If a Taekwondo practitioner and a boxer fought with only punches, the boxer would win, if they fought with only kicks the Taekwondo practitioner would win.
That's why ground focused arts are likely to be dominant in ground fighting because that's their focus. But what about on the street when it's not just about grappling. Sure a grappler can probably take a striker down easily but on the street, is the average grappler really used to be hit while grappling?
Not hating on grappling at all (I grapple too), it's just a thought.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
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Post by odee on Jun 14, 2013 18:24:43 GMT -5
Just like KyKarateka said "A martial art that focuses" The stupid call it limited, the experienced call it specialised. Your style might determine what you practice but your sparring partners determine how good you can be in any area, so it makes sense to find sparring partners who are specialised in each area rather than just sticking it out with generalists.
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Post by boyo1991 on Jul 4, 2013 0:33:36 GMT -5
I'm gunna do what KW said. The inverse of this question, as I am a grappled and have tried to think about this many times. We all know its the fighter, not the style so obviously I can't just say I'd do a judo nage no kata throw. (Particularly ippon seoi nage, cuz I've actually done this to someone who attempted to stab me... XD) so what would I do if this was say a kick boxer?
I think my safest bet is to try and close the distance. Keep circling and spiral in as best as I can before going for a takedown. I've trained some striking so I'm not totally in the dark but against someone calling themselves a striker? This is my ONLY option. Either this or go for the "shot" aka morote gari for those judoka. But that's really not my throw ever since I got sprawled on by someone 4 times my weight in comp. Never again.
Stay away till I can work my way closer then takedown. That's all I can do.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jul 4, 2013 19:52:54 GMT -5
Do you take into account the possibility of strikes in your groundwork so that you're ready to defend against them while you work your ground game?
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Post by boyo1991 on Jul 5, 2013 1:10:57 GMT -5
Do you take into account the possibility of strikes in your groundwork so that you're ready to defend against them while you work your ground game? It's possible, but my general grappling game is a whooole lot closer than even other grapplers. Some grapplers make space to do their moves, I either minimize the amount of space I need or close all gaps. As an example (even in a grappling tournament) from the moment standup starts and we tie up (after any shot is pretty well decided not to happen) all the way till I make my opponent submit, everything from my neck to my knee is touch my opponent the whole time. (A little exaggerated but yeah just saying I get really close.) This includes wrapping arms up, legs, even head butts away from me. I'm not a flashy grappler, I'm more of an efficiency grappler. And do what works and being this tight comes naturally. I think where I would need to start worrying about their strikes (if they are ill prepared on the ground and I luckily get him there) on the ground is if I myself use strikes on the ground. As I would need space to do any damage. But then punching from underneath someone you shouldn't have too much power and he'd basicly be giving up his arm.. but in a street fight I want a choke, not a broken arm lawsuit... Sorry sort of rambled, just covering my bases if I ever do run into a trained striker what I'd do... *edit one more thong for the record I don't play the "death grip" game. I'm not that tight. I more sort of play the logical "if were connected and I can find a way to roll to my side and our chests ar connected, I'm no longer in a bad position." Except when I'm passing guard. You need serious space to pass guard lol
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Post by kokoro on Jul 5, 2013 10:39:48 GMT -5
Do you take into account the possibility of strikes in your groundwork so that you're ready to defend against them while you work your ground game? i have to laugh at people striking is both stand up and ground grappling is both stand up and ground we never separated them, and i dont get why people think that ground fighting is only grappling its only the plan you use it on, we would do striking and grappling while standing on the way to the ground and when we hit the ground
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Post by boyo1991 on Jul 5, 2013 12:12:17 GMT -5
Do you take into account the possibility of strikes in your groundwork so that you're ready to defend against them while you work your ground game? i have to laugh at people striking is both stand up and ground grappling is both stand up and ground we never separated them, and i dont get why people think that ground fighting is only grappling its only the plan you use it on, we would do striking and grappling while standing on the way to the ground and when we hit the ground This may be true, but is a striker still a better striker than a grappled on the ground? In any case, my goal if I have to be in a fight is to throw someone with a nice reliable technique of mine (usually ashi waza of some sort) then run away. I don't want to be in a street fight lol
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Post by kokoro on Jul 5, 2013 14:22:10 GMT -5
there is an old saying you strike to lock and you lock to strike both work depending upon the situation. there is no one technique for all solutions
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