KyKarateka
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Kyokushin & Judo
Posts: 233
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Post by KyKarateka on Jul 22, 2013 20:56:30 GMT -5
Hey so I was having a discussion about this a little while ago. What are the pros and cons of the belt/rank system?
Pro: - They give students and idea where they are - In a sense it gives students a goal to work towards
Con: - Can be easily exploited by McDojos to make money - Ranks can be given when students are not deserving of it
I've always thought of the belt as how long and how hard you train, not actually how good a fighter you are but that's just me. What are your guys' opinions on it?
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odee
Global Moderator
Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
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Post by odee on Jul 23, 2013 4:43:46 GMT -5
Pro - they give the teacher a quick guide regarding what a student should know and needs to learn.
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spiritumliberus
White Belt
The Way of the Samurai is found in death.Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily...
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Post by spiritumliberus on Sept 10, 2013 13:44:56 GMT -5
Contra : Sometimes people tend to think they are unstoppable once they receive their black belt. Misunderstanding of the way.
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KyKarateka
Global Moderator
Kyokushin & Judo
Posts: 233
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Post by KyKarateka on Sept 10, 2013 17:47:47 GMT -5
Yeah I think that's a big one. When people have a black belt they tend to think of themselves as unbeatable or a master.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Sept 10, 2013 18:24:34 GMT -5
That's not such a hard idea to literally beat out of a person. I think it's the general public and those damn belt factories that both overrates and underrates the meaning of a black-belt.
A black belt SHOULD be a damned good fighter - If you're not a good fighter you have no business wearing one, to wear a black belt you should be a more competent and more experienced fighter than most people on the street, the black belt shouldn't be your goal, becoming a good martial artist should be the aim, a black belt should be awarded when you reach that goal. I've faced people in competitions who I honestly wanted to take their black belt and hang their instructor with it.
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KyKarateka
Global Moderator
Kyokushin & Judo
Posts: 233
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Post by KyKarateka on Sept 10, 2013 18:31:05 GMT -5
A black belt doesn't even mean anything nowadays thanks to the huge amount of belt factories out there. I sparred with this Taekwondo black belt that had never been in a contact spar before. Needless to say he went down after the first shot to the solar plexus.
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Artist
White Belt
11 years Kenpo Karate
Posts: 3
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Post by Artist on Sept 13, 2013 21:48:22 GMT -5
Pros: -It tells the students where they are as far as knowing material, skill, etc. -It's shows other students and the instructor what they know and their skill level.
Cons: -Can be exploited by bad schools to make money. -People sometimes care way to much about it.
A belt ranking system is a good thing as long as it's not misused. It shows who you are in martial arts. A lot of people misuse it in many ways though. Some schools promote people that are undeserving of the rank just to make the student happy so they can make money. There are even high ranking black belts that promote themselves to 10th dan. It's ridiculous, they shouldn't care that much about it.
A ranking system should be an important and respected part of martial arts, especially a black belt. A black belt is supposed to mean a lot.
A black belt is simply a piece of fabric that goes around your waist. Being a black belt is in the mind and in the heart. People need to focus on being a black belt, not having one.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Sept 28, 2013 6:02:10 GMT -5
Actually Artist that depends on what you go through to get yours. Mine was stolen from my car, until that happened I thought much the same way you do, I got a new one but I have NEVER liked it as much, it's like getting a replacement trophy - it wasn't awarded to you and it doesn't hold the memories of the one that was.
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Artist
White Belt
11 years Kenpo Karate
Posts: 3
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Post by Artist on Oct 6, 2013 12:22:47 GMT -5
You actually made a good point odee. When I received my 2nd Dan about a year ago, I got a new belt instead of keeping the old one. I was happy with it, but I still missed the old one. I liked the wear and tear it had from the years, I just liked it. I know a 5th Dan that has his original belt, it's worn all over, but that's what many people like. It is more than just a belt, it's sentimental, a part of your life in martial arts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 18:27:59 GMT -5
From my point of view and in my school its good to know what level your dealing with and keep tabs of where there at skill level & knowledge wise, plus it is a good motivational tool to keep students pushing on with there own personal development, if you keep a strong standard and requirement to pertain a level and not give ranks away because of warm fuzzys and Money i believe your gana have a strong school with a solid foundation to build off, i here lots about these Mcdojo's and i can see where it pisses a lot of us off when looking at some of these watered down B/Belts, if these clubs didnt water down the standards required for ranks either because of warm fuzzys or the love of the dollar realistically we wouldn't be having this conversation, yes i know this topic is about the pro's and con of a ranking system, but it comes down to using it as a business tool for a lot of schools and in business there's always a scammer or two out there. I tend not to let it get to me when someone goes on about having this rank and that, i believe the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.
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KyKarateka
Global Moderator
Kyokushin & Judo
Posts: 233
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Post by KyKarateka on Oct 30, 2013 20:03:53 GMT -5
But it doesn't necessarily represent a fighter's skill level if you look at it in perspective. I've seen many lower ranked people beat higher ranked ones. So is it really a measure of a fighter's skill level?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 23:35:32 GMT -5
yeap in a fight perspective, but were dealing with a ranking system, id be more prone to dealing with it from a gained knowledge perspective, ive got guys higher than me that i could clean up in a real fight if it came down to it, but it doesn't make me a better martial artist than them because of that such reason? there has to be a break off point somewhere, if i fought myself from me from about 12 yrs ago id most likely say the guy i was 12 yrs ago would clean the guy up thats here today? because my perspectives have changed, Fightings a young mans game its only one aspect of martial arts.
"Although it is important to study and train for skill in techniques, for the man who wishes to truly accomplish the way of budo, it is important to make his whole life in training and therefore not aiming for skill and strength alone, but also for spiritual attainment." ~Mas Oyama~
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