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BJJ
Jun 25, 2012 10:43:38 GMT -5
Post by youxia on Jun 25, 2012 10:43:38 GMT -5
If you intentionally go to the floor in a fight aren't you just going to get your head kicked in by the guys friends?
Am I missing something?
OR DO YOU GUYS JUST LIKE TOUCHING WITH YOUR SHIRTS OFF?
FAGGOTS.
im not being serious just trying to start an argument
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BJJ
Jun 25, 2012 12:22:48 GMT -5
Post by the tank on Jun 25, 2012 12:22:48 GMT -5
Point taken You risk getting kicked by friends yes, you have to be aware of your surroundings.
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BJJ
Jun 25, 2012 12:45:24 GMT -5
Post by kokoro on Jun 25, 2012 12:45:24 GMT -5
they really should get a room its discussing
its good for what it was intended for one on one
the gracies put a lot of time in there art, in the 50's to 80's the lost quite a number of bouts, until they got to be as proficient as it is
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BJJ
Jun 25, 2012 14:05:07 GMT -5
Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 25, 2012 14:05:07 GMT -5
The vast majority of fights are just fights and somebody's friends will usually not jump in, especially if you go out with friends of your own. On top of that, nobody knows how to stay OFF the ground like a grappler. The anti-grappling in most striking arts is, to say the very least, bullshit. In BJJ you'll learn how to sprawl to avoid a takedown. In striking arts, you'll learn often unproven methods of trying to hit somebody before they can take you down and if you miss or just don't hit hard enough you're screwed.
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Chef Samurai
Global Moderator
Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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BJJ
Jun 25, 2012 15:14:50 GMT -5
Post by Chef Samurai on Jun 25, 2012 15:14:50 GMT -5
another common misconception of bjj...
they also teach you how to get up from the ground when someone has you pinned down trying to ground the crap out of you instead of just laying there and hoping it goes away.
ground fighting is taught in traditional schools too but it's usually grossly underdone since even the teachers are only teaching a part of the style & not the whole thing because chances are they never learned it all since that would take 60 years or so.
and striking arts & grappling arts are bullshit because everyone that's not a sport teaches both depending on the quality of the school or not and the only division is grappling oriented with striking as a back up and striking oriented with grappling as a back up.
every style before it became a sport had both even boxing had grappling, wrestling had strikes, judo has strikes karate has grappling but over time styles become competitive and competition oriented since most people are athletes they learn how to compete without the war aspects which would be wasted on a civilian.
no one continued to learn wrestlings strikes because they were illegal in competition and most people competing were athletes so they didn't need to know the whole art to compete & they passed it on until submissions were banned and now you have the throwing style without submissions or strikes that many claim to be a complete style even though history shows it's a shell of its former self.
then there is gracie jiu jitsu & brazilian jiu jitsu...
"it's fair to say that Gracie Jiu-JItsu encompasses all of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu does not emcompass all of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. And with most jiu-jitsu schools focusing exclusively on the sportive application of jiu-jitsu there is no guarantee that a new student who walks into his local jiu-jitsu school will ever learn the most important thing this incredible art has to offer - reliable and realistic self-defense techniques for worst-case street fight scenarios - and that is what the Gracies are trying to change.
The bottom line is that the jiu-jitsu that was perfected, brought to America, and popularized by the Gracies, can be practiced both as a system of self-defense AND as a recreational sport. Any individuals, schools, or organizations that are practicing the art with a primary focus on street applicability, while enjoying and perfecting the sportive aspect as a secondary priority, are practicing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. On the other hand, people who practice the art with a primary emphasis on sportive mastery, while giving little or no attention to real street-fight application of the techniques, are practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu."
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BJJ
Jun 26, 2012 10:05:46 GMT -5
Post by youxia on Jun 26, 2012 10:05:46 GMT -5
On a serious note, I can see it being used against multiple opponents, as you don't have to just use a lock, you can break bones from the lock right?
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BJJ
Jun 26, 2012 10:37:51 GMT -5
Post by kokoro on Jun 26, 2012 10:37:51 GMT -5
people think and train one dimensionally, many of the moves in bjj cam from stand up grappling. almost all moves done standing can be done from the ground. and those done on the ground can be done standing. there are a few exceptions of cause
one of my sensei's could do a spinning back kick from a kneeling position. i lost it at the round house kick that killed my knee cap as it was.
the floor is just one aspect, the walls can be used in place of the floor for many techniques as well. people see bjj and all they think of is ground fighting they dont look at the bigger picture. the same goes for stand up fighting, all they think is this move can only be used while standing. this is the part the gracies explained bring it to another dimension the ground
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BJJ
Jun 26, 2012 12:48:07 GMT -5
Post by fyahooanswers on Jun 26, 2012 12:48:07 GMT -5
you probably will get kicked in the head by his friends. but chances are if you are facing more than 2 or 3 attackers even a trained person would probably get their ass kicked. and if no one jumps in you take that person down they are fucked if they don't know jiu jitsu their selves
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BJJ
Jun 26, 2012 15:16:19 GMT -5
Post by tiecuando on Jun 26, 2012 15:16:19 GMT -5
Yep. The apologetics come from the bjj or run crowd. I do consider punching and sometimes kicking to be better.
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BJJ
Jun 27, 2012 11:53:27 GMT -5
Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 27, 2012 11:53:27 GMT -5
Here's a video where Bas Rutten talks about a fight he lost against 3 guys. Bas has the balls to admit that he isn't confident that he can with against 3 guys any time. I'm not sure why so many people think they're tough enough to handle it with what they know.
Every martial art will serve you best against only one opponent. Those videos you see on Youtube of people knocking out 2-4 guys are not representative off what you can expect to encounter if you're up against multiple attackers. Get the heck out of there. It's not safe, and chances are you're screwed whether you're a striker or a grappler. Chances are, all those who are concerned with the likelihood of a grappler getting his head kicked in by a group of guys should be just as concerned with themselves. A grappler at least has better training in NOT going to the ground than most strikers. Who is to say that a trained striker is immune to being taken down by the group and getting their head stomped into the pavement anyway?
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Chef Samurai
Global Moderator
Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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BJJ
Jun 30, 2012 2:42:07 GMT -5
Post by Chef Samurai on Jun 30, 2012 2:42:07 GMT -5
Here's a video where Bas Rutten talks about a fight he lost against 3 guys. Bas has the balls to admit that he isn't confident that he can with against 3 guys any time. I'm not sure why so many people think they're tough enough to handle it with what they know. Every martial art will serve you best against only one opponent. Those videos you see on Youtube of people knocking out 2-4 guys are not representative off what you can expect to encounter if you're up against multiple attackers. Get the heck out of there. It's not safe, and chances are you're screwed whether you're a striker or a grappler. Chances are, all those who are concerned with the likelihood of a grappler getting his head kicked in by a group of guys should be just as concerned with themselves. A grappler at least has better training in NOT going to the ground than most strikers. Who is to say that a trained striker is immune to being taken down by the group and getting their head stomped into the pavement anyway? Very true your best bet is to run against multiple opponents but at least a striker can hit & run while a grappler can't but a non sport stylist who does both will have a batter chance because they can hit & run and if they get tackled they can still defend then hit & run. I would rather take the hit & run approach since if they do catch up to me they are hurt and are going to get hurt again. I don't know many people who think they can take a group of people and win without running away.
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odee
Global Moderator
Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
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BJJ
Jun 30, 2012 2:59:39 GMT -5
Post by odee on Jun 30, 2012 2:59:39 GMT -5
Funny how the tone of voice gives that story a completely different feel. Last time Bas told this he made it sound like it really wasn't that big a deal. This time it sounds like he really regretted it. Besides that these weren't just epople Bas was talking about. Bouncers tend to qualify as fighters and usually pretty experienced ones.
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talon
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
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BJJ
Jun 30, 2012 2:59:48 GMT -5
Post by talon on Jun 30, 2012 2:59:48 GMT -5
As usual CF is very wise! In real life situations Hit & run is always best, as you don't really know their fighting ability, True numbers {more might join in} or if they are armed. Confident/skilled or not, if you go into a fight expecting Not to get hit you are a fool.
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rikashiku
Yellow Belt
I'm watching.
Posts: 90
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BJJ
Jun 30, 2012 11:00:44 GMT -5
Post by rikashiku on Jun 30, 2012 11:00:44 GMT -5
The idea of BJJ is to give the guy on the bottom a chance to fight back. When Helios Gracie and his brothers first created the style, they involved a lot of strikes(Taekwondo and Boxing are very popular in Brazil) as a means to prevent themselves from going to the ground and to help them stand up again. The ground fighting is a way to make sure that you don't get the shit beat out of you.
Unfortunately, BJJ isn't like that anymore and I'm not sure how many gyms teach it traditionally now because now it seems that everyone joins it just to compete and grapple. Even BJJ tours are just grappling and its very similar to Judo which is a similar martial art except it makes sure that you don't go down, but in BJJ, you want to go down.
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Keyboard Warrior
Head Administrator
Ze Führer
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Practitioner
Posts: 721
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BJJ
Jun 30, 2012 11:12:08 GMT -5
Post by Keyboard Warrior on Jun 30, 2012 11:12:08 GMT -5
The idea of BJJ is to give the guy on the bottom a chance to fight back. When Helios Gracie and his brothers first created the style, they involved a lot of strikes(Taekwondo and Boxing are very popular in Brazil) as a means to prevent themselves from going to the ground and to help them stand up again. The ground fighting is a way to make sure that you don't get the shit beat out of you. Unfortunately, BJJ isn't like that anymore and I'm not sure how many gyms teach it traditionally now because now it seems that everyone joins it just to compete and grapple. Even BJJ tours are just grappling and its very similar to Judo which is a similar martial art except it makes sure that you don't go down, but in BJJ, you want to go down. Gracie schools are still very self-defense based. They just opened up one in my town, and unfortunately its more McDojoish now. They give you a checklist card, and you essentially just classes check marked after you go to them. Then when you complete a certain amount of them, you get a stripe. It's bullshit.
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