aaronj
Global Moderator
Yondan - Shurite Karate Jitsu, Chen Taijiquan
Posts: 116
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Post by aaronj on Jun 27, 2012 21:58:13 GMT -5
Since I came across the other thread about combining different martial arts to be a better fighter, I have seen another misunderstanding of what something is.
(It was very pleasing to see the members that we have here so far, understand the differences between the martial practices of Bruce Lee and his philosophy. We should keep this trend going to further educate others.)
On to the subject at hand. WHAT IS NINJUTSU??
Ninjutsu is a study in general warfare during the feudal period of Japan. It is not a martial art. It's focus is on gathering intelligence, and military assessment. It is as old as the 6th century, and originated in southern Japan (Iga and Koka).
The martial arts that accompany the 'ninja' share similar qualities to those of the Samurai and quite varied, just like the Samurai. This is even true within the Bunjinkan organization.
The 'Ninja' like the Samurai, held different jobs, and as such were called by their titles. This means that Ninja is not necessarily the appropriate term, for an individual or even group, but instead a generalization for the 'hidden' society given as a modern term.
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There are a great deal of differing opinions about the lineage of any school of martial art with claims of an authentic Ninja heritage. That's not what I want to try and deal with here, as it's really a political argument as much as it is an archaeological one.
I hope this helps with any confusion on Ninja and Ninjutsu.
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ZenGenesis
Orange Belt
~As Artes Marciais 7 Anos~
Posts: 125
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Post by ZenGenesis on Jun 28, 2012 1:10:52 GMT -5
Yea, it was my question. My friend asked me this and I had nothing to say but to go on this forum and ask opinions.
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Post by imforreal on Jul 5, 2012 14:51:07 GMT -5
As I'm a practitioner of Ninjutsu, I'm left to wonder what exactly are we looking at here as a discussion point. Are we looking to discuss the validity of Ninjutsu, or the history, or the practicality of Ninjutsu as a fighting art?
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Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 5, 2012 15:31:20 GMT -5
ninjutsu has a mcdojo problem like most traditional styles like taewkondo, karate & kung fu but I think it's a good style if taught by a good teacher to a competent person.
I don't understand the history but there are a few other arts with obscured histories like daito-ryu aiki-jiujitsu that clam to be hundreds of years old but don't really have any proof but that doesn't make them any less legit..
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Post by imforreal on Jul 5, 2012 16:21:28 GMT -5
That can be a problem, but like most other schools of other forms you will run into possible Mcdojos. But if you are talking about Ninjutsu, what exactly are we going to discuss? As for Bujinkan this site has A LOT of background info, and info into the 9 halls (the nine art forms that were the fathers of modern Bujinkan). www.budotaijutsu.co.uk/index.php
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Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 5, 2012 18:03:12 GMT -5
what about the techniques?
I noticed a lot of stuff like jujutsu & karate in it and it makes me wonder if they were related.
I heard some ninja were former samurai so they could have incorporated jujutsu into their lineage.
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Post by imforreal on Jul 6, 2012 17:05:52 GMT -5
Take for example the 1st Bujinkan kata the Sanshin No Kata. I found this video and he demonstrates the Sanshin really well youtu.be/Romlk_ORWKw. If you notice you will see the basic forms that you would see in nearly any other art form. Ninjutsu is the "Heinz 57" of the martial arts, it's a mix and match, the "Jack of all trades" so to speak except it does "master" them. Personally I've found Aikido techniques, Karate, TKD, Judo, Kung Fu, and Jujitsu techniques within its moves. If you go back far enough in history you will find that most styles are practically the same except for some minor twists. Take for example Karate, you got 75 different variations according to this so-called comprehensive list. This is generally because marial artists are always developing new styles. So its not a stretch to think that one form in particular (Ninjutsu) would take techniques from each style to build upon its own. Here is a list of the 75 different Karate forms, and again, this is only a list of Karate - Karate Aishin-kai Ashi-hari Ashihara Chito-ryu Doshinkan Geido-kai Gensei-ryu Genshin-ryu Gima Ha Shoto-ryu Goju-ryu Gosoku-ryu Hayashi-ha Joshin Mon; Jyoshin Mon Kamishin-ryu; Shorinji-Tetsu-Kempo Kanbukan: See Renbukai Karate-Do Karate-Jutsu Kenkojuku Kenkokan; Shorinji-ryu Kenkokan Kenseikan Kenshikan; Kenshikan Kenpo Kenyu-ryu Kobukan Koei-kan Koshiki Kosho-ryu Kempo Kushin-ryu Kyokushinkai; Oyama-ryu Nippon Kempo Nippon Shorinji Kempo; Shorinji Kempo Renbukai; Renbukan; Kanbukan Rengokai Renshinkai Ryobukan; Shindo-Jinen-ryu Saibukan Sankukai; Nanbudo; Sankudo Seiki-dojo Sendai Shinbu-kai Shinden-ryu Shindojinen-ryu Shinto-ryu Shito-ryu Hayashi-Ha Itosukai Kenyukai Kiyatake-Ha Ryu-E-Ryu Seikikai Seishinkai; Motobu-Ha Seishinkai Shitokai Shukokai; Tani-Ha Shito-ryu Shito Kempokai Tani-Ha Shukokai Shobu-kai Shorinji Kempo Shorinji-ryu Shorinji-ryu Kenkokan Shorinji-ryu Renshinkan Shotokai Shotokan The naming of the style Shotokan actually came about directly from its founder Gichin Funakoshi as Shoto was his pen name. Shudokan So-ryu Soyoujyuku Tai-Jutsu Taido Take-Nami-do Toon-ryu Wado-ryu Washin-ryu Yamato-ryu Yin Shinkai Yoseikan Yoshukai If you notice above the form Tai Jutsu, that is the primary base form from which Bujinkan focuses on its style. Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.
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Chef Samurai
Global Moderator
Canadian Catch Wrestling
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 6, 2012 17:24:56 GMT -5
good stuff imforeal!
it makes sense it's like mma before mma and not a sport either.
and there are apparently over 70 styles of Taekwondo because the different variations and hundreds and maybe thousands of styles of Kung Fu.
I like the idea of ninjutsu a lot more now already.
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Post by imforreal on Jul 7, 2012 11:50:23 GMT -5
Thats actually what I would describe it as when my friends would ask about it, that it is a MMA "type" form because it mix and matches from different art forms. Bujinkan originally came from 9 schools or styles which were Togakure-ryū Ninpō Taijutsu (戸隠流忍法体術) Gyokko ryū Kosshi jutsu (玉虎流骨指術) Kuki Shinden Ryū Happō Bikenjutsu (九鬼神伝流八法秘剣術) Koto Ryū Koppō jutsu (虎倒流骨法術) Shinden Fudo Ryū Dakentai jutsu (神伝不動流打拳体術) Takagi Yoshin Ryū Jūtai jutsu (高木揚心流柔体術) Gikan Ryū Koppō jutsu (義鑑流骨法術) Gyokushin-ryū Ryū Ninpō (玉心流忍法) Kumogakure Ryū Ninpō (雲隠流忍法) These were the primary forms that were instrumental in the creation of the more modern Bujinkan form. So that is the history of Bujinkan, now for the fighting form and style. www.youtube.com/user/NinjaLearningNetwork?feature=g-user-uwww.youtube.com/user/ninjallaI've discovered these links in YouTube and am quite impressed with them, I no longer have to watch some moron in a black suit running around his yard attempting flips (are kinda entertaining when they fail). The Akban association is an Israeli school of Bujinkan, the teacher is really good. Also if you are interested the "Ninja learning network" offers a set of dvds that you can buy if you want to study some Bujinkan techniques, there is no belt grading involved just the "homework". www.ninja-learning-network.com/basics-of-ninja-training.htmlI like this YouTube video as it demonstrates some techniques that would be useful on the street, and it provides some background into the Bujinkan art. youtu.be/zY_D2ZZAZIo, also "Taijutsu" is heavily focused in Ninjutsu and by that I mean youtu.be/UhoWb3X7tIA. Movement is another big focus as you don't plant yourself in front of your opponent and battle with them like karate or tkd you need to keep moving, similar to Aikido, youtu.be/23bwSnFAhi0And here is a link to the majority of the Bujinkan YouTube videos www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_users&search_query=bujinkan+sparring&uni=1
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aaronj
Global Moderator
Yondan - Shurite Karate Jitsu, Chen Taijiquan
Posts: 116
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Post by aaronj on Jul 14, 2012 1:51:00 GMT -5
imforreal,
I apologize for being late in my response to your question. I was on vacation the past week and in the woods away from technology.
The point is not bringing into question the validity of ninjutsu, as it was a very valid study of espionage and military tactics in early feudal Japan. It is to say that historically, Ninjutsu cannot be classified as a single martial art, as it was not a martial art (as understood today being hand to hand combat of a system or collection of systems) at all. It's very much like the NSA, CIA, or FBI, and each agent having their specific duties (skills) within the organization. The skills of the ninja are not purely physical combatives, as the majority of the world perceives. It is as encompassing as can be with it's requirement of skills, from navigation, interrogation, aquatics, chemistry, camouflage, logic, psychology, first aid, etc...
The martial art specifically, IE grappling/ striking/ weapons study is something else entirely, as it only makes up one part of what ninjutsu actually is. That's why it's called Budo Taijutsu (basically: martial body skill)... among the other systems that make up the Bujinkan which is an organization itself, not a martial art.
My point is to clear up what people believe things to be. Thanks for your help and participation as well. Haha I too am glad to not see it left to the comic-con fan-boy types dressing in black, and blowing flower in people's eyes.
PS - do you have any other links, I couldn't seem to get any to work, maybe their host took them down?
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Post by imforreal on Jul 14, 2012 12:13:03 GMT -5
some of the best ninjutsu youtube links are The Ninja Learning Network, and Akban. both have excellent YouTube Channels
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