ZenGenesis
Orange Belt
~As Artes Marciais 7 Anos~
Posts: 125
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Post by ZenGenesis on Jul 4, 2012 5:45:14 GMT -5
I don't like ranking systems in any form in martial arts. I simply want to learn the art. I've taken Baguazhang, Wing Chun, and Jun Fan Gung Fu and they never used a belt ranking system and I took regular classes. No rank tests no nothing. I tried out Taekwondo and didn't like it because they were aimed towards the sport version and they had a belt ranking system. I didn't mind Boxing and Muay Thai but I didn't get a feel for any of those and plus i'm a traditionalist. So honestly, I think there is no point in a ranking system. Is it that important to say, "Well, i'm a so-so belt in TKD or "I hold a second degree black belt in Karate". I can understand if the teacher uses it to see where their students are in their training but that's about it. Are their any more reasons why ranking is important?
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Post by kokoro on Jul 4, 2012 5:55:15 GMT -5
while some arts do have ranking systems. if you talk to the instructors some of them will let you train with out testing you just wear a white belt, and never test.
unless there assholes and want the money more then they want to train you
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Post by peppermillk on Jul 4, 2012 8:32:55 GMT -5
That is pretty much the only good reason besides one I can think of. In my style we don't have belts or anything but we do have an underlying level system. At different levels u learn different techniques, have to know a certain amount of knowledge and understanding of the style and be able to keep up to a intensity releative to the level. And the reason its broken up like this is because it has to be delivered to students in stages so its managable for them without them losing the focus on what they should be focusing on. I know this can be done without a level system but when your working with a class bigger than a certain amount it simplifies things. If a sifu just has one or a few students then yes a rank system would be rediculous unless the style has a inbuilt level system. It just makes things smoother. As for the paying aspect, that rly is unnecessary but I guess if the student wants a belt or grading card that would be what the costs cover
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Post by drunior on Jul 4, 2012 9:13:40 GMT -5
The thing is, not many people in the world think like you do. The whole reason the color belt system was first started was because students were seen to have more motivation when given a more visible sign of improvement.
Also WTF Taekwondo is primarily aimed at being an Olympic sport, so it is apparent that is their main focus. That's the route that WTF chose, and I'll respect them in that way.
The kyu and dan ranks already existed in other activities, such as Abacus (my mother is a 2dan in Abacus) and Weiqi/Go/Baduk (Board game). The ranks are meant to be a description of skill level of the practitioner, and a practitioner is supposed to meet a written standard to advance a grade. It is also used to pair practitioners against one another in competitions so that competitors are paired at a relatively similar ability. Thing is, outside of martial arts, there are no visible garment that the practitioner wears to display their rank.
More places should follow a strict guideline for how the students grades are measured. For example, the European Go Federation (EGF) uses the Elo rating system that is found in Chess, and gave it a rough equivalent kyu and dan rank. Example is a 1500 rated player will be a 6kyu, and a 2100 rated player will be 1dan (Anyone play World of Warcraft? The arena rating system used Elo rating system). The IJF (International Judo Federation) also uses a point system that encourages competing against opponents of higher rank, or participating in higher level tournaments to increase one's grade.
Quite honestly, kyu grades doesn't mean much. In some activities, kyu ranks are not well monitored. For example, kyu grades are mostly unnoticed in Go, and some Judo federations (USJF is one) won't formally recognize you as a particular grade until 3kyu.
Sadly, most schools have no clue how to measure their students grades outside of how much money they threw into the school, or how long they have been in training. This is strange how an Olympic affiliated organization like WTF can have so many dojangs that have a poor standard for their grading system.
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Post by peppermillk on Jul 4, 2012 10:38:15 GMT -5
For motivational purposes then yes they are useful. But that would be just to cater for students not mature enough yet to c that it doesn't matter how high a rank u get as long as ur consistently training u will progress. Even if u remain on the first level ull build a great foundation which u can then build easly on whenever u please. Grades asside tho a sifu should have sum personal level of relationship with each of his students. He should know roughly where they r at with their training. If they don't then they are either not the students direct teacher or they r just a very disconnected one and therefore not a very good one
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Chef Samurai
Global Moderator
Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 4, 2012 21:38:11 GMT -5
I don't really like belts either but they are good to keep track of progress and who knows what.
I'm pretty sure yikio mizutane or some other judoka in england expanded the traditional kokodan 5 colors to a bunch which caught on and brought in big business which others imitated for the same business purposes.
and since it's based on getting more business I'm not really a fan.
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talon
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
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Post by talon on Jul 5, 2012 0:59:43 GMT -5
A black belt is just a beginner who never quit! once you achieve it you can actually start to train properly. yeah I know I kinda liked the belt system at the beginning as it gave a sense of accomplishment... but the more I did the more irrelevant they became to me as I simply took from the arts I was involved in to evolve in my own style.
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