kane
White Belt
Posts: 24
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Post by kane on Jun 19, 2012 12:28:34 GMT -5
Hey there everyone, Just wanted to ask all the Taekwondo practioners do you practice the Patterns of both WTF and ITF for practice ?
I mean even though you are from a different organization do you practice the patterns of both ? Because the moves are relatively same.
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MA Ray
White Belt
WTF Taekwondo, Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Practitioner
Posts: 43
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Post by MA Ray on Jun 19, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -5
No, I just practice my WTF Taekwondo poomsae. The reason for that is because like you mentioned, WTF and ITF Taekwondo poomsae are relatively similar. Another reason is that I spend most of my training time practicing my kicks, punches, knees, and elbows on a body opponent bag as well as constantly sparring with other opponents. In the end, I don't have much time for poomsae or "forms" as I sometimes call them, but I still practice them from time to time to maintain my technique.
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kane
White Belt
Posts: 24
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Post by kane on Jun 19, 2012 13:10:35 GMT -5
K thanks.
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Post by leol5477 on Jun 20, 2012 6:17:35 GMT -5
Just ITF. I know the first 14, but I am working to polish them all, especially the last three. The school I attend has quite exacting expectations on forms. The grand master has produced a written document for each form, explaining exactly how he wants us to prepare, shift and execute in each step. We are expected to attend a two hour class for each form, where the grand master and one or two of his chief assistants review the form step by step. The first 14 kata have classes every year. I still go to he lower kata clinics for review. I attend 4 or 5 a year, so I can hit them all again in 3 years..
The remaining upper kata clinics are only taught once evey three years. I plan to start that cycle next Spring, when in restarts.
I think doing kata well stretches you mentally and physically. They force you to use techniques that are unfamiliar or uncomfortable, until they become familiar and comfortable.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 21, 2012 1:10:50 GMT -5
Can somebody explain Palgwe to me
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Post by cheetah on Jun 21, 2012 17:48:02 GMT -5
My school is a combo WTF/ITF so I practice both. Currently learning Gae Baek. I practice all the forms every week still.
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Post by Possum on Jun 22, 2012 5:22:13 GMT -5
I practice all WTF and some ITF forms. jwbulldogs - Palgwe were the original WTF forms, they were named Palgwe 1, Palgwe 2, etc, all the way to Palgwe 8. They have been replaced by Taeguek forms. Some places have not switched over to Taeguek, others practice both. In one place I was at, only the black belts learned the Palgwes, and in another, you learned them at the same time as the taegueks. The palgwe forms have a look and feel for many Shotokan forms, and that is the reason the Koreans, during their Koreanization of Taekwondo, changed over to the Taeguek series.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 22, 2012 11:40:55 GMT -5
Thanks Possum. I didn't know. I know I see Poomsae or something like that when tkd talk about kata. But I recall my sensei who also is a 6th or 7th Dan in TKD talking to this one guy that comes around to help out with teaching. He is from TKD, but we are Shorin Ryu. His Instructor is out of town, but he wants to get higher rank. One condition for promotion he says he has to stay active. So he uses the fact that he works out with us and helps teach. I'm sure they don't know that he is not consistent. Then he found out that in our organization some school teach TKD, shorin ryu, jujitstu, bjj, kajukembo, judo, small cirlce, or some other form of martial arts depending on the dojo he has talked about going with my sensei good friend that regularly teaches tkd along with shorin ryu. My sensei explained to him that if he learned the required palgwe that he would issue the rank, but he never took him up on the offer. He has been coming around for years and has only learned one of our 18 kata. In my opinion he doesn't want to train or learn. He just wants rank.
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Post by Possum on Jun 24, 2012 20:53:03 GMT -5
@jw - knowing the palgwe officially isn't required for rank except for 1st dan. Kukkiwon (dan issuer for WTF) allows to use Palgwe, but they are really only underbelt forms - just like the Taeguek series that replaced them.
It's a wierd story: in the old days, you practiced palgwe 1-8 as underbelts, then went on to practice the black belt forms as a black belt. But when they replaced palgwe forms with Taeguek, they didn't replace any of the black belt forms. I don't know why they replaced only the underbelt forms and kept the black belt forms. From my observation, many of the black belt forms have more of a Chinese influence, whereas the Palgwe had a Japanese influence. My guess is that in Koreanisation, what they really meant was "De-Japanization"... sort of.
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Post by Possum on Jun 24, 2012 20:58:10 GMT -5
@jw - oh, yes... "poomsae" that is what WTF taekwondoin refers to what Japanaese mean by "kata". ITF taekwondoin call them "tul" or "hyung" and they also mean the same thing.
It might interest you to know that the word "tul" is similar to the Chinese word "taolu" which also means forms (kata). And, there are two kinds of ITF: those that practice with the strange sine wave, and those that don't. Those that practice with the sine wave usually refer to their forms as "tul", while the other camp refer to them as "hyung". The forms otherwise have the same name, eg, "Chon Ji Tul" or "Chon Ji Hyung". There's no rule here, just custom. So some schools might break away from this naming.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jul 3, 2012 11:34:16 GMT -5
Thanks Possum. I kne I saw the term poomsae (I wasn't sure of the spelling) on yahoo and it was the equivalent of kata. Then hearing my sensei say palgwe I thought he was talking about kata too. I think the guy is trying to get his 4th Dan but he needs learn his Palgwe.
I don't know all of the different organizations of TKD, but I can assume from what you have given me that he is from an older organization that used the Palgwe instead of what is being done today in some organizations.
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Post by Possum on Jul 3, 2012 14:09:29 GMT -5
jwbulldogs, yeah it sounds like his organization still uses them. 4th dan? That's odd: kukkiwon doesn't even require the applicant to demonstrate the replacement Taeguek forms (both Palgwe and Taeguek are underbelt forms). I'm willing to bet that his organization has the underbelts do the Taeguek forms, and then the black belts do the Palgwes (in addition to the black belt forms). So they add more requirements than Kukkiwon wants. Not bad in my opinion - as long as you like forms! :-)
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jul 4, 2012 12:17:13 GMT -5
That's the thing. If the guy gets his 4th Dan from his instructor he doesn't have to do anything other than prove that he has been active over a certain amount of time. That is how he got his 3rd Dan. He told them he has been working out with us. In reality he only shows up every now and then and may work with the smaller children.
But my instructor will require him to know all of the Palgwe in order for him to issue him any rank.
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Post by Possum on Jul 5, 2012 22:48:33 GMT -5
well... then I guess when he tests, the jig is up! :-( Hopefully he will show up more often and work out with people his own size. At 4th dan, he ought to be a model for his style. Unfortunately, Kukkiwon does not check active status - they rely on the instructors to do that.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jul 5, 2012 23:29:13 GMT -5
Needles to say he won't get it from my instructor. He might get it from his instructor in another state by saying he is working out with us. That's pretty sad if you ask me. They should at least verify with us that he is training. He is a very nice guy, but his skills are not that great and he doesn't train regularly.
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