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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2012 0:03:27 GMT -5
Can it trace it back to the Three Kingdoms era in Korea of the period 57 A.D to 668 A.D due to the role Taekkyeon played in its development (like Judo can go back to the Samurai via Jujutsu?
Or is it a recent invention?
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Post by kokoro on Jul 19, 2012 6:56:05 GMT -5
i beleive it goes back to just a few hundred years before bc. but it is sketch from my understanding, i have only done a little research into this.
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Post by cheetah on Jul 24, 2012 14:52:10 GMT -5
Well, the name TKD is recent, 1950s. But yes its roots taekkyon and subak can be traced to that period in Korean history. Combine those two with shotokan and you get the ITF style of TKD, which is what Gen Choi Hong Hi did in the 50s and named it TKD. Then the WTF breakoff happened in the 70s with two intents: To Koreanize TKD, the ITF version looks a lot like shotokan, which is understandable since Korea was occupied for like 40 years by Japan and to get TKD into the Olypmics as the second martial arts in that.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 4, 2012 5:34:11 GMT -5
The name Taekwondo was pegged in 1955(many started giving in names in 1954), but its history starts during the annexation of Korea to Japan. The first masters, as I was told by other teachers, one an Original master, is that Korean martial artist had to train in temples to avoid being arrested. The temples were raided of their treasures by soldiers making them safe to visit because soldiers wouldn't return. 1924, the martial art that eventually became taekwondo was seen for the first time in Judo and was praised by Korean and Japanese soldiers. 5 years later, the first Korean owned Kwan was formed(or 7 years later? I forget). By the early 30's, there were 3 active Kwans, all of which had helped the Original masters to build Taekwondo to what it is now. One in particular is responsible for half of the existence of Taekwondo's Kwans.
The name Taekwondo had been suggested by multiple members of the Original masters, but Choi Hong Hi is credited the most...mainly by his own organization with little mention of the others.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 4, 2012 10:24:40 GMT -5
wow good stuff rikashiku!!!!!!!
I've never heard that part but it makes sense with the anexation and war and all.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 4, 2012 23:52:22 GMT -5
Its not hard to piece together from the internet or from ITF magazines. Most of what I learned was from Rhee who grew up in the wars and teaching martial arts.
People often state that Taekwondo is just Korean Karate or that most of the masters learned Karate but this is not true. Out of the 9, only 2 learned Karate and they hated it.
The reason the masters learned Japanese martial arts is because it was mandatory at the time for soldiers to learn Japanese martial arts. They also wanted to learn how the Japanese martial arts worked. Know your enemy, know yourself deal.
I'm a classical studies junkie.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 23, 2012 19:12:27 GMT -5
Yeah I'm a bit of a classical studies junkie myself and with your info and some more reasearch it looks like the biggest influence karate had on taekwondo is do or the way and the kata & uniforms.
but only some forms are karate forms others are from other styles so I guess it would best be described as a hybrid style with traditional values especially after taking kicks from Filipino sikiran too.
hell I guess even karate is in the same boat after taking the axe kick from tarkwondo and roundhouse & side kicks from who knows where else lol
are there any real traditional styles left that were never influenced by other styles?
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 31, 2012 21:46:04 GMT -5
The Uniforms came from Judo. When Taekwondo was first demonstrated, it was at a Judo competition. The Kata are not from Karate either. Taekwondo and Karate just look similar to people but have very little connection.
A lot of Kicks were taken from Taekwondo and into Karate and other martial arts. Even a Kung fu expert I know told me how kicks are different from Kung fu and Taekwondo. Eric Chen told me how Taekwondo kicks are a lot more effective to him because a Kung Fu kick is swung, but a Taekwondo kick is controlled like a spring. You can pull it back and release, but a Kung fu kick is always loose.
So far, the only martial art that I can think of that has had no influence from other martial arts is Taijutsu, but thats only because the history is practically lost. Another I just thought of is Mau Rakau. Very traditional there.
Muay Thai is probably has the worst confusion of what a martial art is. Its almost entirely boxing with kicks mixed in. There is almost no Thai martial arts in it, but people don't know this. They just watch, they don't learn. They enjoy their Ong Bak to much -_-(sorry but Thai fangirls have been getting on my already pissed off nerves at the moment. I'm gonna kill some aliens.)
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Post by Possum on Sept 7, 2012 8:16:12 GMT -5
I always joke that no conversation, before 1955, ever went like this: "hey, you wanna grab a beer at the bar tonight?" "no, I can't - I'm going to taekwondo class"
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Post by Possum on Sept 7, 2012 8:19:55 GMT -5
I think the system of patterns, uniforms, and teaching styles are new and are adopted from Karate. But the techniques are an amalgamation from all styles in the geographical area - including from ancient Korea, Japan, and China. When one asks about the history, one needs to clarify whether they want to know about the system of techniques, forms, etc, or are they referring to the base techniques.
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Post by Possum on Sept 7, 2012 8:24:51 GMT -5
Wow. I just passed my promotion test, I'm a yellow belt! Anyhow, there is a book called the Muye Dobo Tongi, which was written long ago in the late 1700's or early 1800's that detail all of the fighting styles of Korea. The only one is Kwonbop. It is interesting that it contains an 18-movement form that describes it's style's movements. But nowhere does it mention Taekwondo. There are recent translations into English which you can download, and Korean historians are trying to improve their interpretation of the movements. So if you get your hands on a copy, be sure to keep up to date with it.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 7, 2012 15:28:27 GMT -5
18-movement form? Now I'm wondering if it's related to eighteen hands Kenpo.
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Keyboard Warrior
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5
Cheetah I love your avatar...just came here to say that.
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Post by cheetah on Sept 7, 2012 16:11:48 GMT -5
Thanks KW. It took me long enough to figure out how to post it.
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