rikashiku
Yellow Belt
I'm watching.
Posts: 90
|
Post by rikashiku on Aug 1, 2012 3:20:17 GMT -5
In a real fight, not in the ring, would you actually try to take someone to the ground and wrestle or ground and pound them?
|
|
odee
Global Moderator
Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
|
Post by odee on Aug 1, 2012 6:11:28 GMT -5
If there was a reason why I thought the ground was a better option yes I would. I prefer standing confrontations but if I believed I could put someone away faster on the ground I wouldn't hesitate to take that person down. Same with the bouncers that I work with. When somebody grabs a girl's handbag and dashes out the door you chase him down and tackle his ass. Not every fight runs the risk of you getting gangsta stomped while you're on the ground (I got in one where I was surrounded by a group of my own friends who immediately started cheering for the other guy, if I chose to put him down and beat him senseless on the ground not one of them would have stomped me or even stopped me). I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record on this but every confrontation is situational. Some you can end without a fight, some you can't. Some you can take risks some you can't. Clarity is a wonderful thing to have but not everyone possesses it, its not really something that can be trained and sometimes you can go better on gut feeling alone.
|
|
|
Post by judomofo on Aug 1, 2012 9:20:48 GMT -5
I have, and have done it repeatedly to great success.
I worked security, and to me it was a much more reliable form of controlling a situation and person while minizing exposure and damage to myself. I don't want to stand up and trade with someone, there lies a chance there they get a lucky punch in, there is also high probability of them bleeding on me, and my knuckles getting cut up in the process. I am not a fan of bodily fluid transer with strangers... call me old fashioned.
Mind you most of the time I choke people out standing, but there have been several times I have thrown people repeatedly... especially in a multiple attacker situations, by slamming one guy, I know he has to at least get up, and try to sort himself out which gives me time to engage someone else, however I have knocked out and dramatically injured people I have thrown and ended the fight right there.
But there is a reason law enforcement officers take people down, they are easy to control, and allow you to minimize damage to yourself.
Keep in mind properly taking someone down and controlling them means you end up with your head up and what equates to about hip or belly button level of a standing person, you aren't really getting stomped and unless someone has a great roundhouse kick, you are in a pretty good place to get up quickly if need be or see any attack coming.
I've used a ton of restraints, but reality is I prefer choking someone out. It is over quick, it is unavoidable for the person locked in, and I know it ends the fight. Plus it prevents me from handing someone who looks like hamburger meat over to authorities while telling them it was self defense, and risking blood exposure to Authorities, who tend to appreciate that line of thinking.
Standing with a guy, I don't know what his chin is, I don't know how many shots it is going to take, I feel I risk myself longer while standing, I prefer to close distance and finish from there, I have the added comfort of controlling the opponents body, and using it to shield my own.
Every situation is different, but I have found taking a fight to the ground is very advantageous, guys are also less likely to jump in if you are alert and looking around, or if their intervention cound seriously injure their buddy.
|
|
Chef Samurai
Global Moderator
Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
|
Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 1, 2012 14:26:15 GMT -5
It depends on the situation really if it's mano a mano I'll go to the ground but if it's a few guys I'll take the parkour x caopeira route and hit and run hopefully break a knee as I run by so one can't chase me.
Sometimes people don't care about their buddy and your screwed because not everyone is the same & I always train for the worse in case it happens because it does.
Also if they are better on the ground than me I don't want to be there with them especially if I'm better standing.
a coked out wankster roid junkie with 10 years training trying to be tough to get into a gang or something is different than some random drunk at a bar... ones out for blood and the others just drunk & stupid.
|
|
odee
Global Moderator
Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
|
Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 20:22:44 GMT -5
Hey Mofo, isn't sweating like crazy and mashing your bodies together a fluid transfer? Especially when you get grazed by the concrete, asphalt, dirt road or ground you're rolling around on. Like I said if the ground is the best option I'll take it, have before, will again but I prefer to stand and trade, I lose track of what's going on around me when I lock up with a person, standing or on the ground grappling just takes too much of my thought process where my striking is trained enough that it tends to work best when I think less and let it happen naturally.
|
|
|
Post by jwbulldogs on Aug 2, 2012 22:27:44 GMT -5
Yes, but it depends on the situation. It is one thing to take a person to the ground and you remain standing. I've done that to protect myself because there was another attacker. with one down I can deal with the other one easier. But I would not have done any wrestling or ground and pound allowing myself to be hit while being in a position not being able to defend myself. I have also taken a guy to the ground where I got on top of the guy to continue to choke him out. But I knew it was one on one. I was on crutches and knew I couldn't stand on one leg and fight the much bigger guy. I had to give myself an advantage. I also knew he didn't have a weapon as we were in a locker room.
I'm not going to stand a trade with a person like I used to do before I began training. If taking the guy down will give me an advantage I will. If I have the position to to end the threat standing I will. It really depends on the situation.
|
|
|
Post by judomofo on Aug 7, 2012 11:10:09 GMT -5
Hey Mofo, isn't sweating like crazy and mashing your bodies together a fluid transfer? Especially when you get grazed by the concrete, asphalt, dirt road or ground you're rolling around on. Like I said if the ground is the best option I'll take it, have before, will again but I prefer to stand and trade, I lose track of what's going on around me when I lock up with a person, standing or on the ground grappling just takes too much of my thought process where my striking is trained enough that it tends to work best when I think less and let it happen naturally. I guess this is sort of one of the mistaken ideas out there, that there is going to be some "rolling around" with both of us sweating and taking a lot of time. Some of it could also be experience more than anything else. Typical situation: Person's body posture, threatening words, pushes me, I lock up throw him something like Osoto Gari(easy to do against 99% of the population), land on the guy with my body weight landing on his ribs or solar plexus, landing directly in side control, head and arm choke, it is all over in about 10 to 15 seconds before opponent realizes what is going on. I've knocked guys out with throws, broken peoples ribs, etc. Myself and opponent are wearing clothes and generally it is over quick enough that I never even break a sweat. The difference is the experienced grappler controls how it goes to the ground, and already is in a superior position, no rolling around required. The only person getting grounded into gravel and concrete is my opponent who untrained at falling hits hard surface at high velocity with his body weight and mine combined impacting the ground. That is if choose to go the ground, I will begin a lot of confrontations directly into a choke and taking person down to finishing applying leverage, preventing them from moving. I can't tell you how many times I have slipped a punch straight into a standing head/arm triangle choke, where I hip toss the guy down with me just to finish it off. Or a quick shove against the shoulder spins them right into a hadaka jime or rear naked choke, and I kick out the back of their knee and walk them down... If done properly, I am not "rolling around" on concrete or lava, or anything, I am on top of someone getting ground into the concrete/hyperdermic needles, broken glass, etc. Superior skills in grappling means I control all action on the ground, and gives me the ability that if for some reason I end up on the ground, i.e. slip, get caught with a lucky punch etc, I have the ability to quickly reverse position, and remove the person from on top of me to being underneath me. I find any situation ends up in tunnel vision, it is a side affect of adrenaline, the more time I spend at range trading the more likely I am not going to be able to end it as quickly surely, and like I mentioned puts the odds into the fact of being able to be caught with a lucky punch.
|
|
|
Post by rollingrock128 on Aug 18, 2012 20:13:50 GMT -5
i would avoid it at all costs. i remember when i thought i was a badass bjj blue belt in a street fight until i woke up with ppl telling me a caught a boot to the face. but it happens always good to be ready. and if you know for a fact you don't have a chance of getting jumped i would go there.
|
|
|
Post by Diaz209 on Aug 29, 2012 6:05:56 GMT -5
Yes if it was an arranged fight with somebody then people would be watching and their would be respect involved so no kicking in the face on the ground and shit I would honestly use MMA rules and i would leg kick with all the force i could get and if it was a brawl I would definitely grapple because not many people train grappling from where I'm from and I would have more control of choking them out or snapping an arm or something. Better not take the risk of taking a lucky hook to the face, but if it was someone stronger and slower than me i would standup by all means.
If it was just a street confrontational man I'm ragging hair off, kicking to the face and running away.
|
|
|
Post by clowns on Sept 11, 2012 3:05:24 GMT -5
I have never been in a "street" altercation that the fight went to the ground. But if I were to find myself in the type of altercations I found / put myself in when I was younger, I would be better off slamming the person and ending the fight on the ground. I would be better off than some of the stuff that happened to me on the feet. I grew up in "stand up" martial arts, and it is easier for a drunk idiot to land a lucky punch than it is for a sober person to get lucky from his back while trying to find out what to do off his back.
|
|
|
Post by bbqpit on May 10, 2013 11:02:14 GMT -5
I already know that I would. Because the last real fight I got in about 4 years ago, I did go to the ground without hesitation. I don't feel like explaining all the details (I have a few times on YA), but I got into a scuffle with some drunk idiot. I did a low kick, we somehow ended up in a clinch and I dropped down for a double leg and we were right beside a hill and I wasn't able to pull off the double leg and we fell towards the hill. So I'm on this hill/slant, with our heads facing down the hill, so we're sort of upside down almost (although it wasn't extremely steep). Well he was on top, but I was able to escape his mount and take his back. I quickly thought about what I should do between punching and choking, but I felt that a choke would be less traumatizing. So I went for the choke and since I didn't want to render him unconscious, I told him to tap on my arm if he was ready to knock it off and he did.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 0:14:14 GMT -5
I would yes if it was one on one and there was a clear absence of weapons around. The ground makes it easier to anchor the submissions and chokes.
|
|