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Post by The Last Airbender on Sept 3, 2012 10:57:06 GMT -5
I wasn't referring to violations, you can't violate what someone doesn't have. A lady at university gave me this and I thought it was kind of relevant, this is pretty odd stuff to be handing out in a flyer with no context so I figured I'd ask you. '"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those among you who fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." Sura 4:34 "...Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. God is mighty and wise." Sura 2:228 Under Shari'a - Islamic law - a man can marry up to four wives. He can divorce his wife or wives by saying "I divorce you" three times. For a wife to obtain a divorce is usually very difficult. Muslim apologists claim that Muslim women have the right to divorce and that in Islam the mother is revered and respected. Upon divorce, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls on the onset of puberty. Many women would be reluctant to divorce violent or polygynous husbands for fear of losing their children. Despite the exaltation of motherhood - Mohammed once told a follower that paradise is found at the feet of the mother - children are considered the property of the father with the mother being merely the caretaker. How is it possible for a Muslim man to respect his mother when immutable religious law proclaims women's inferiority and inadequacy? Under the Shari'a, compensation for the murder of a woman is half the amount of that of a man. A woman's testimony in court is worth only half of a man's. Women are entitled to only half the inheritance of males; the reason given for these is that males have families to provide for. In sura 4:34 men are granted superiority and authority over women because they spend their wealth to maintain them, this implies that women are a burden on society and that their work in caring for children, household and livestock is insignificant and trivial. Girls as young as nine can be married off by their father even if the mother disapproves of the marriage, often they end up as second or third wives of much older men - here is a way to instantly eradicate illegal paedophilia! Conservative clerics have resisted moves to raise the minimum age for girls. One of Mohammed's wives, Aisha was seven when she was betrothed to Mohammed and nine when the marriage was consummated, Mohammed was in his fifties with several wives. '" I mean damn, what's that about? First off, 'beat them' is a mistranslation due to the ambiguity from Arabic to Greek to English. A more correct term would be reprimand them. As said before, whether we in the West understand it or not, the women are ok with this because of the patriarchal society. and in ancient times a women who is proud and 'out of line' would kill off half the tribe because she'd cast dishonor on her husband and the people there would not show respect and the whole community would descend. Again, I stress this point, the Laws of Islam 'against' women are largely designed to keep MEN from committing sin. They're a society that believes, if you dress and act slutty, people are gonna rape you, treat you badly, objectify you, use you for sex, all of which are sins in all the Abrahamic religions. Lust, Fornication, Adultery, Maltreatment. They view the answer to this is to form a society where women are not seen as equal (reason: if men and women are equal and the goal is to reproduce, women will get the idea that they may be with multiple men and in Patriarchal society, children out of wedlock and children whose mother doesn't know who the father is are not going to grow up properly due to the lack of a true father. eg: The Jerry Springer Show) The prophet Mohammad PBUH, says that a man may marry up to Four women if he can do them all justice by loving them equally. He then goes on to say that no man can love more than one woman equally and to try to do so would be an injustice. I see this as more of a Jesus PBUH, saying "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" he doesn't REALLY expect anyone to try it because it's impossible to be without sin, just as it is impossible to love more than one woman equall and treat the equal without showing favor.
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odee
Global Moderator
Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
Posts: 1,286
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Post by odee on Sept 3, 2012 17:55:11 GMT -5
Now I'm trying to remember who made the raw meat crack, something came up in the news about guys hiding cameras in their shoes and sneaking panty shots on the train and someone pointed out that "when you leave raw meat uncovered it attracts vermin".
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Post by The Last Airbender on Sept 3, 2012 19:01:55 GMT -5
Now I'm trying to remember who made the raw meat crack, something came up in the news about guys hiding cameras in their shoes and sneaking panty shots on the train and someone pointed out that "when you leave raw meat uncovered it attracts vermin". Exactly... i think?
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 4, 2012 3:10:20 GMT -5
I'm not Muslim. But many of our beliefs are similar. I have people that are close to my my family that are Muslim. They are so close that we attend each others family functions. It started with my mother and her childhood friend. Her daughter is like my sister. I applaud the ones that adhere to their customs and culture even though society at large around them don't agree or understand what or why they do what they do. I only wish that more Christians were like that.
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Post by The Last Airbender on Sept 4, 2012 14:23:42 GMT -5
I'm not Muslim. But many of our beliefs are similar. I have people that are close to my my family that are Muslim. They are so close that we attend each others family functions. It started with my mother and her childhood friend. Her daughter is like my sister. I applaud the ones that adhere to their customs and culture even though society at large around them don't agree or understand what or why they do what they do. I only wish that more Christians were like that. I agree. most U.S Christians are very poor at following the customs of their religion. most of them eat ham for Christmas or Easter and get tattoos of Crosses not understanding the fact that both of these are forbidden in the Book of Leviticus.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 5, 2012 1:12:03 GMT -5
@caoperista- yeah it's purely out of interest because I'm really big into mythology and related stuff which often pertains to religion and cultural beliefs that go way back andI agree on the greatness of it I'm just about 1/10 done and it's at least on par with the chinese water margin or greek illiad or brittish Arthur stories but even more in depth and on an epic scale really only seen in modern science fiction with weapons capable of destroying the entire universe that can be wielded by mere mortals. and Hinduism sounds a lot like taoism where deities exist within the body who can help people out if they can find a way of using them but not all people are aware of the dietys in them so they don't ever try to get help.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 5, 2012 6:03:04 GMT -5
I don't have tattoos, I don't eat anything unclean. Many Christians believe that was done away with and use a weak argument to justify their actions. Most Christians do not keep the Sabbath either, but they all have the 10 commandment on the walls of their churches. Often they can quote then 1o commandments but fail to adhere to the 4th commandment.
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Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 5, 2012 13:28:09 GMT -5
I heard christains who follow the pre christ traditions are heathens because christ changed stuff but Ii' not too sure I wasn't around back then to hear every little detail from the source so something could have been left out or added over the past 2,000 years lol
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Post by The Last Airbender on Sept 5, 2012 14:07:13 GMT -5
As far as I know, Jesus only added to the religion. I don't recall him ever taking any of the old laws away, although he modified a few like when he healed the guy on the Sabbath and equated it to helping a man out of the ditch on the Sabbath. But then again, Islam says Judaism (and later Christianity) were corrupted and changed so it could be that this was never illegal and Jesus, being a prophet, knew this. Which also leads into the Islamic idea of the Sabbath. Muslims believe that G-d is omnipotent and never needs to rest because He never tires thus He never 'rested' on the seventh but rather His work was complete and to "keep the Sabbath" means to give thanks and revere it as the day when it was all finished--not refuse work.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 5, 2012 14:59:28 GMT -5
Jesus didn't modify the Sabbath. That is a bad misinterpretation. Yes he healed the man on the Sabbath. He has the Authority to do so since it is His day. Healing on the Sabbath the religous community saw it as being wrong or unlawful. But Jesus was doing something good by healing than man. Therefore to shut the mouths of those that wanted to accuse him he mentioned that he was doing good. The example of helping a man stuck in the ditch stopped them from their judgmental comments concerning Him healing someone on the sabbath.
Jesus didn't come to take away the Law "Torah". He came to fulfill it. Resting on the Sabbath is not because God was tired. It was because he finished His creation. He set this day aside and made it Holy. It became a Holy Convocation (a called assembly) "a day of worship with like believers.
Islam and Judaism calls Jesus a prophet. But Christian believe Jesus to be the Messiah that the Prophets spoke about. He is the Only Begotten of the Father. the Son of God. He is the one that Isiah spoke about when he said He was wounded for our transgression, bruised for our iniquities and the chastisement of our peace is upon him and with his stripes we are healed. The New testament says He is one of 3 parts of the Godhead bodily. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. This refers to Him being God in the form of a man. just one characteristic of God. Many Christian have used this scripture to say God is a Trinity. This is not True. God is still One.
Christianity hasn't changed. A better way to say it serving God our creator hasn't changed. What He requires has not changed. But it is all being fulfilled. It is written that there would be a great falling away from the faith. Man has changed. Man tries to make the scripture fit their agendas. Being doing so this gives them an excuse not to keep the Torah. But they will have to give an account for that in Judgment.
Another bad interpretation is that Jesus (Yeshua) done away with the Law. Jesus summed up the Law by saying Love God with all thy heart and to love thy neighbor. Man (mankind) fail to connect that the first 4 commandment tells us how to love God. The remaining 6 tell us how to love our neighbor.
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all claim to have the same Father. We all claim Abraham the Patriarch. But we can't come to an agreement.
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Post by The Last Airbender on Sept 5, 2012 16:45:23 GMT -5
Jesus didn't modify the Sabbath. That is a bad misinterpretation. Yes he healed the man on the Sabbath. He has the Authority to do so since it is His day. Healing on the Sabbath the religous community saw it as being wrong or unlawful. But Jesus was doing something good by healing than man. Therefore to shut the mouths of those that wanted to accuse him he mentioned that he was doing good. The example of helping a man stuck in the ditch stopped them from their judgmental comments concerning Him healing someone on the sabbath. Jesus didn't come to take away the Law "Torah". He came to fulfill it. Resting on the Sabbath is not because God was tired. It was because he finished His creation. He set this day aside and made it Holy. It became a Holy Convocation (a called assembly) "a day of worship with like believers. Islam and Judaism calls Jesus a prophet. But Christian believe Jesus to be the Messiah that the Prophets spoke about. He is the Only Begotten of the Father. the Son of God. He is the one that Isiah spoke about when he said He was wounded for our transgression, bruised for our iniquities and the chastisement of our peace is upon him and with his stripes we are healed. The New testament says He is one of 3 parts of the Godhead bodily. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. This refers to Him being God in the form of a man. just one characteristic of God. Many Christian have used this scripture to say God is a Trinity. This is not True. God is still One. Christianity hasn't changed. A better way to say it serving God our creator hasn't changed. What He requires has not changed. But it is all being fulfilled. It is written that there would be a great falling away from the faith. Man has changed. Man tries to make the scripture fit their agendas. Being doing so this gives them an excuse not to keep the Torah. But they will have to give an account for that in Judgment. Another bad interpretation is that Jesus (Yeshua) done away with the Law. Jesus summed up the Law by saying Love God with all thy heart and to love thy neighbor. Man (mankind) fail to connect that the first 4 commandment tells us how to love God. The remaining 6 tell us how to love our neighbor. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all claim to have the same Father. We all claim Abraham the Patriarch. But we can't come to an agreement. I respectfully disagree. Were Jesus the Son of G-d he would be the blood of G-d's blood. a family member. an equal. G-d is begotten by none. no one comes close to Him. therefore Jesus, while arguably a perfect human, was just human. In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that G-d told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19) From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics: 1) That he will be like Moses. 2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites. 3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him. There were hardly any two prophets who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad . Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Both encountered their enemies and were victorious in miraculous ways. Both were accepted as prophets and statesmen. Both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlook not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well. These include the natural birth, the family life, and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus. Moreover Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of G-d and not exclusively as a prophet of G-d as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslims believe Jesus was. So, this prophecy refers to the Prophet Muhammad and not to Jesus, because Muhammad is more like Moses than Jesus. Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: “Now this was John’s testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words “the Prophet” occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18.2 We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 5, 2012 18:30:00 GMT -5
In creation god said Let us make man in our image, and in our likeness. Who is us? Who is our? To whom was God speaking?
These are plural terms. He wasn't speaking to an angel. They don't have the power to create.
In Duet: you have to read the rest of the scriptures to have a better understanding. There were many prophets. God put his Words in their mouths. There are also many false prophets. How do you tell the difference? The false prophets words will not come to past.
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.
Jesus is the Son of God. He is equal. He is one with God. He was a Lamb slain before the foundations of the world. He found it necessary to come down to earth in the likeness of man yet still God, both Human and God in order to restore man from the sin of Adam.
He is not the Prophet. He was more than a prophet. He is the Son. Jesus asked a question. He asked whom do men say that I am. They began to respond saying
Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
He then asked whom do you say that I am.
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 5, 2012 18:36:56 GMT -5
Also notice the parallel.
Moses asked God ( G_d, Yah, YHWH) whom shall I say sent me. By what authority can I go and tell these people that have already rejected me that I am to lead them out of Egypt?
The Lord responded, tell them that I Am that I Am
Jesus said w\him do men say that I Am
When they sought Jesus before he was judged and crucified.
Jesus asked whom they wee seeking then he told them the He is the one by say I Am Hes and the people fell down as if they were slain because of the power of that statement.
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Post by The Last Airbender on Sept 5, 2012 20:42:12 GMT -5
In creation god said Let us make man in our image, and in our likeness. Who is us? Who is our? To whom was God speaking? These are plural terms. He wasn't speaking to an angel. They don't have the power to create. In Duet: you have to read the rest of the scriptures to have a better understanding. There were many prophets. God put his Words in their mouths. There are also many false prophets. How do you tell the difference? The false prophets words will not come to past. 21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. Jesus is the Son of God. He is equal. He is one with God. He was a Lamb slain before the foundations of the world. He found it necessary to come down to earth in the likeness of man yet still God, both Human and God in order to restore man from the sin of Adam. He is not the Prophet. He was more than a prophet. He is the Son. Jesus asked a question. He asked whom do men say that I am. They began to respond saying Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He then asked whom do you say that I am. 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Muslims believe in the existence of the angels and that they are honored creatures. The angels worship G-d alone, obey Him, and act only by His command. Among the angels is Gabriel, who brought down the Quran to Muhammad and Michael who expelled Lucifer, another angel. By that, G-d meant "let us" as in they'll all have a hand in seeing and helping. G-d creates man, the angels guide man in accordance with G-d's word. This example you give is a perfect example of why Islam says The Torah and The Bible have been corrupted by men. Mistranslations. Both you and I got two different translations from the same book. The Qur'an, as most mainstream scholars will tell you, has been unchanged since it's inception and it's frowned upon to read the Qur'an in any other language other than the one in which it was revealed; Arabic, for that is the verbatim word of G-d. Indeed, they have disbelieved who have said, “God is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary.” The Messiah said, “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates partners in worship with God, then God has forbidden Paradise for him, and his home is the Fire (Hell). For the wrongdoers,3 there will be no helpers.” (Quran, 5:72) Indeed, they disbelieve who say, “God is the third of three (in a trinity),” when there is no god but one God. If they desist not from what they say, truly, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. Would they not rather repent to God and ask His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a messenger... (Quran, 5:73-75) To be fair, this is from the Qur'an so...
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Post by kokoro on Sept 5, 2012 20:45:25 GMT -5
Jesus didn't modify the Sabbath. That is a bad misinterpretation. Yes he healed the man on the Sabbath. He has the Authority to do so since it is His day. Healing on the Sabbath the religous community saw it as being wrong or unlawful. But Jesus was doing something good by healing than man. Therefore to shut the mouths of those that wanted to accuse him he mentioned that he was doing good. The example of helping a man stuck in the ditch stopped them from their judgmental comments concerning Him healing someone on the sabbath. Jesus didn't come to take away the Law "Torah". He came to fulfill it. Resting on the Sabbath is not because God was tired. It was because he finished His creation. He set this day aside and made it Holy. It became a Holy Convocation (a called assembly) "a day of worship with like believers. that is true and now for my rant ahh yes the Sabbath, the only commandment that starts out with the world remember. the ten commandments were the only law written in stone. stone representing permanent. hence the term written in stone. no where in the Bible does it state the ten commandments are obsolete infact the opposite. Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. the Sabbath was changed by empire constantin to sunday and not in the Bible in order (for lack of a better term) pagons into the church since that was there holyday and yes i probably spell that empires name wrong and why is it of all the ten commandments the sabbath is the only law christians break break. or for that matter when people claim the law is no longer valid. if the law is no longer valid then why stop at that commandment, if its no longer valid it means i can steal, kill people, comment adultery. but no its always the sabbath commandment it seems i'll do the clean meat rant later. i dont know if you guys can handle both in the same day lol
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