odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Aug 21, 2012 4:08:10 GMT -5
I was reading an interesting article on Bullshido talking about Zen ( for those who simply must see the article it's here www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115521&page=1 ) but the part that caught my interest was " The Zone" those wonderful times when everything you've learned just falls into place and you know what to do so well you don't even need to think about it. #Has anyone else experienced the zone? It doesn't have to be in a martial way, race drivers get it quite frequently. #Any tips for finding the zone? Do you listen to music? Sit quietly? Just find it in a fight or sparring match at times? Is it possible to train to find the zone? Is it something that moves further away the harder you chase it?
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Keyboard Warrior
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Ze Führer
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on Aug 21, 2012 6:40:59 GMT -5
I think the best time it happens is when your fighting or sparring or rolling. Shit just connects fo rme sometimes when I'm rolling. Sure I'll think of stuff and things will connect later on the drive home, but by the time I can apply it, the next day, I would have forgotten about that light bulb that went off. It's best that I have those "aha!" moments when I'm rolling because then I remember them better.
Cool thread by the way. I like it.
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Post by the tank on Aug 21, 2012 9:56:59 GMT -5
I felt it often when I used to be a long distance runner.
My body would go on automatic pilot for over 10 miles, it was awesome.
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Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 21, 2012 15:34:33 GMT -5
I did by accident a few months ago when I was sparring and I dropped my partner with a solid jab but I didn't even think about it it just happened all I was thinking about was evade and next thing I knew my partner was laying on the ground calling me an asshole lol
However I do it in video games all the time I don't have to look at the controller or think about what I'm doing next a lot of times it's natural reflexes which is probably related.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Aug 22, 2012 4:15:42 GMT -5
I'd be interested to hear about it from a rolling perspective KW. Rolling for me requires some real thought process, I know it really works on feeling your opponent's intentions by their movements but I find it difficult to imagine a chess player or grappler in the Zone.
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Post by the tank on Aug 22, 2012 10:34:50 GMT -5
I remember it happened also when sparring, getting ready for a muay thai smoker about 3 years ago. My partner was hammering me with jabs, could not make him stop , tried parring and kicking to no avail, next thing I know he was taking a knee with a broken nose. I hit him with a straight right without thinking, and it hurt him badly, I felt awful After much apologizing and he was OK, my coach stepped into the ring, put his gloves on and said: "let's continue training Frank, now we spar, don't worry, you won't hurt me..... but IF you do , I will hurt you much worse!" Eastern European trainers are scary! I loved that guy, very good coach and person.
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Post by The Last Airbender on Aug 22, 2012 14:59:12 GMT -5
I think it stems from confidence. when you're so confident in your techniques you have almost no trouble executing it and you don't even think of the step in it because you're like "yeah, I've got this." it works on people of less skill because they're worse and works on people of higher skill because while they know it, they don't have it mentally tattooed like you do. of course, you actually have to be good at it and not just cocky because you need to actually have the technique so ingrained in you that you're pulling the mechanics out of the subconscious of your brain.
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Post by The Last Airbender on Aug 22, 2012 15:04:24 GMT -5
I'd be interested to hear about it from a rolling perspective KW. Rolling for me requires some real thought process, I know it really works on feeling your opponent's intentions by their movements but I find it difficult to imagine a chess player or grappler in the Zone. Grappling works quite the same way. I'm a little pressed for time so i won't go into depth but when you sweep a guy and you transition from submission to submission to sweep and control the guy any which way you like; that's the Zone. attempting a submission having it go wrong and finding yourself applying another or attaining a weep from it. The Zone. i assume the end of Frank Mir v. Nogueria II would be a Zone moment. nice smooth transition and sweep into a kimura. effortless rolling and attaining a dominant position to secure the win.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Aug 22, 2012 16:37:53 GMT -5
Fair call. All the pieces of the puzzle just drop in place.
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Post by capoeirista on Aug 25, 2012 16:50:40 GMT -5
The concept of zen is very similar to the psychological expression called flow. Now, flow is defined as the complete immersion of one's mental capacity into a task that requires a degree of skill. Zen, or the state of flow, is not restricted to physical activity; it can be an activity such as chess or, most commonly, art. As somebody who enjoys drawing, I experience Zen/flow all the time. For example, if I was to draw a picture, time loses meaning. I would start drawing, and I wouldn't notice hours passing until somebody interrupted me. Another example would be a chessmaster's view of a chess game. Instead of looking at the present state of the board, a chessmaster in flow will have predicted and mapped out every possible outcome for the next 20 moves of the game, which is something that require enormous mental effort.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 26, 2012 6:02:02 GMT -5
Please don't start comparing the zone to zen. Zen philosophy does my head in.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 5, 2012 2:24:07 GMT -5
just like zen you cant throw anyone into a quantum physics class and expect him to understand it without further understanding of how all the related concepts work then throw that all out the window because it all changes when they start interacting and new universes are created and crap lol I'm one of those people too I try to get it but the more I learn the more confused I get because it contradicts everything because it is no longer acting within the same context.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 5, 2012 5:32:03 GMT -5
Being in the zone is a common term we use in basketball. It is when it appears as if you can't miss a shot. You are on fire. It is like that basket is as big as an ocean therefore no matter what you throw at the ocean it goes in. Yes I've been there. I'm a short guy. I used to play point guard. If I was playing pick up I didn't care about me scoring I just played to win. I'd typically set others up to score. But If I was on a team with guys that weren't that good I'd have to score. I would play myself into the zone. I could flip the ball backwards towards the basket and score. I practice shots like that but didn't count on ever using it unless it was a game of horse. I've taken over the game putting us in a position to win. At this point I know I can't miss. I want the ball. I'd be a little upset if somebody else on my team failed to pass me the ball and they missed a shot. You only stay in this zone for so long and you don't know how long it will last. You must ride it while you can. If they missed the shot I knew I had to play that much harder on defense to get a steal or rebound because the other guys weren't going to do it.
How to get there I can't say, but I played myself into it and became a selfish Player(ball hog) while in the zone.
In grappling we trained to get to that point. You can't think. You had to be able to react through feel. My sensei made us fight blindfolded. It stopped us from bending over and looking down. It taught us to feel a person movement and intent. We relaxed and became more sensitive. I became more enlighten about everything around me to the point that when someone would try to sneak up on me I may not hear or see them, but I would turn and strike them sending them to the ground. I didn't realized what I had done until I seen them falling. That almost git my wife who was my gf at the time hurt. She couldn't understand why I do jump or get caught off guard or that nothing seem to scare me. I tried to explain that getting nervous or jumping can get you hurt, You must be calm and react to the circumstance. One day we came home late from going out. I had to go pretty bad. So I ran to the bathroom without turning on the hall lights. I didn't know she was hiding behind a bedroom door to jump out behind me even though she knew she should do things like that. I couldn't see anything. I open the door and walked into the room on my way to my other bedroom(joining bedrooms). When I close the door I turn and began to throw a punch. Just then my eyes began to focus some in the dark. I could see that it was her and I was about to hit her in her nose. I tried to pull the punch and I reached the tip of her nose without physically hurting her. I only felt her presence is why I threw the punch. I was barely able to prevent myself from hurting her. I saw the tears began to form in her eyes as she was frozen in fear. She said afterwards that she would never do that again. It been over 20 years and she has kept her word. We train to fight the unexpected. We train for surprise attacks. We train for surprise attack from multiple attackers coming from behind. Because we get put into those scenarios in the dojo we are better prepared if it happens on the street. We try to make attacks as realistic as we can. I wasn't in the dojo at the time, but they used to train in the complete dark. You only knew where someone was because they either had on a top or not. It was supposed to be shirts against skins. But everybody got hit. Untile they figure out how to keep everyone on their side back to back.
I like the idea that Kokoro said before that we haven't done or done yet. WHere they train in a sall stairwell. I've thought of what i would do on a stairwell, but I have not practiced it until it become part of me and second nature.
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