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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 24, 2012 7:02:56 GMT -5
As we increase in skill in martial arts every strike should be accurate. In competitions people often just strike to a certain region. But an artist strikes to a specific spot or nerve or joint. In self defense the object is not to just break a rib. The objective is to cause internal damage. In competition it is much different. Sure their are dirty fighter in competition, but nothing like the person who is fighting for his or her life. Just like I mentioned the side kick to the knee. It is meant to cripple a person. In shorin ryu we teach that our kicks should never be above the waist. This s not competitively. This is for ending the threat. You remove the risk vs reward that is in competition. In competition a shorin ryu person will kick just like everyone else to the groins, chest and head. In the old days of competition there were politics like today. If the judges refuse to count your points many were taught to go ahead and take the person out. This often was done with a kick like the side kick to the rib. You set them up to deliver the kick making them expose the ribs and deliver the kick with intent. Even if the judge don't score it they match was over. The other fighter couldn't continue.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jun 24, 2012 19:19:20 GMT -5
Oh? So you're saying Bas Rutten didn't bust Brendan DeLucia's liver on purpose? Bas was proud of that for a reason. He meant to do it. Boxers regularly cut their opponent's faces on purpose to clot their eyes with blood and make it harder to see. Kyokushin students aim to destroy opponent's livers, kidneys and ribs to get them to lower their guards for a knockout by way of head kick. Muay Thai students use similar tactics with their knees during clinches.
The difference is not rules or sportsmanship. The difference is the calibour of the opponents, the fact that with a small twist of the body another fighter can turn the most accurate shot into a glancing blow, the fact that another fighter likely has the ability to catch and counter-attack, the fact that fighters can, will and do continue to fight with injuries. Injuries do not end fights, at best they slow your opponent down. So why bother taking a big risk on an injury when for a smaller risk you can chase a knock-out that WILL end the fight.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jun 24, 2012 20:55:27 GMT -5
The difference between fighting for a points win and fighting for a continuous victory is that points are only a factor when the fight goes the distance and that is seen as a minor victory, a theoretical win. In a three minute bout under continuous rules a person can defend themselves for two minutes and fifty five seconds without scoring a single point and still win that match. All they have to do is take the major victory. Knock your opponent down so they stay there, knock your opponent out or make your opponent submit. An actual win.
This is a point sparring match. The idea being that IF the student chose to he could have put the force in and knocked his opponent out. Actually knocking your opponent out is frowned on.
This is a continuous knockdown competition that ended in a theoretical win and both fighters know it.
These are knockdown matches that ended in actual wins. There is no question of why each fighter won. His opponent was either on the floor for too long or on the floor and not concious. Knocking your opponent out isn't frowned upon, neither is brutalizing them. It is actually of the point of the exercise and since these are tournaments the quickest way of dealing with an opponent is the favoured method because it conserves energy for the next match and cuts into every one of your potential opponent's recovery time.
These are continuous rules won by submission, again the winner is obviously the one who forced the other guy to submit.
Now watch as I magically make a point to all these videos. Spinning back kicks aren't a favoured move in continuous competitions because for all their potential to cause injury they are rarely fight enders when facing another fighter and for something that doesn't end fights spinning back kicks and almost all kicks for that matter can go south in some pretty epic fashions.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 24, 2012 21:52:38 GMT -5
What you are talking about is strategy. This is what we teach for sport "tournament". You strike hight to set up a low strike. You strike low to expose the head. This is still much different in self defense. I'm not fighting you at a distance. I take the fight into my effective range and out of my attackers effective range. There is not high risk technique. That has been removed from the equation. The caliber of the attacker has been neutralized. You have already jammed them or have them in a control situation to deliver your blow whatever that may be. It could be your liver shot. It could be one to destroy a limb. It could be one to the throat. It could be one to break the neck. People misinterpret eye gouges. they do not end the threat, but they give you the distraction needed to end the threat. The same thing with a groin strike, but to me the groin strike is just something to use to surprise someone or to cause pain before I'm finished.
This is why I often say there is a difference in self defense and sports. Yes many of the same strikes or kicks are used. But the motives and the intent is different. If I'm going to take your breathe. You are not going to walk away. Someone will carry you out. If there are multiple of people with you. I'll do enough to stop you so I can make my escape.
In sport people debate what is the best stance to use. But in self defense you don't want to give anything away. I want to look like I'm not engaging in a fight. I don't know who is watching or taping. My posture say I don't want to fight. Any witness nearby will be able to say he didn't want to fight. I head him. The attacker surprised him and you can tell. You better practice what is call your CNN defense. You want the witnesses to tell your story.
A fight that takes place in the ring is not like the ones that take place in my neighborhood. If you were stupid enough to try to kick to my head you can hit me if I'm too close. You can't hit me id you can't stand. You are on one leg. It will not support you and my kick through that leg. I then have two choices. I can leave or finish the job.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jun 24, 2012 22:25:57 GMT -5
That's the part you seem not to be getting. In a continuouis ruleset the idea IS to finish the job. In spite of the damaging potential of spinning back kicks people rarely use them in continuous rules because the risk they carry outweighs what the kind of damage that they can actually inflict. Idiots debate the better stance. Fighters use everything they know. Surprise tactics are nothing new to competitions, you nullify them by having reflexes for the last second evasion and being tough enough to keep fighting afterwards If I was going to kick your head I'd make damn sure you had no say in the matter. I've said before that people who come unstuck with head kicks had no business using them in the first place. The same is true of the spinning back kick. To nulify the possible risks of such a kick you simply have to do far too much, there are better kicks to end a fight without the risks.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Jun 25, 2012 18:58:49 GMT -5
You are not getting that I can careless about a rule set. I don't adhere to any set of rules. I'm speaking from a self defense aspect not a set of rules that are govern by a body or organization that says this is safer that that. I know people break or bend the rules. In response to the question there is no way to quantify that one strike is more powerful than another. There are too many variables. The variable starts with the person using the strike. None of us have same exact attributes. We all differ on ability, how we practice and the focus of our practice. I may practice a side kick one times a day. The next person puts their efforts into developing a spinning kick and this may be their strongest kick. Another person may develop their hook kick or back kick. It is not about risk vs reward. I tell my student all of the time you can turn your back and fight when you can't even fight facing forward. I have a student every now and then that tries to do some spinning kick when they spar. I'll quickly show them why that not a good idea. I'll be nice and pop them in the back of the head. There is a perfect time and reason for using a kick like that. but again that has nothing to do with it being more powerful than another kick. It has to do with the situation at hand.
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Post by The Last Airbender on Jan 18, 2014 21:19:18 GMT -5
If blood is what you're seeking, nothing opens people more than an elbow. However, I believe the body kick (roundhouse or front) will end a great majority of "street fights" simply because most fighters are weak in the ribs, have no breath control, are expecting head shots, move forward rapidly and don't block the body. The body kick shocks more people than anything I've ever seen in a "street fight" so against the average joe, I would say that it is most "effective"
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