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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 23:11:17 GMT -5
Muay Thai is often said and heard of as "the most brutal and dangerous fighting art" in the world but yet there are styles like Muay Lao, Tomoi, Lethwei, Bokator, and Pradal Serey that are basically the exact same thing as Muay Thai and are more brutal and dangerous than Muay Thai as far as training and fighting goes. I researched all these arts and they all can fight with bare knuckles except Muay Thai. (maybe in Thailand they do a little but definitely not in the west) The restrictions for these arts are less limiting than Muay Thai too. I'm just so sick and tired of people thinking that Muay Thai is the best and the most brutal art ever created (thank you UFC for primarily making this happen, it is a con of Muay Thai now) when there are styles out there like the ones I listed above that are practically the same and share the same roots but with more intense training. Muay Thai as the most brutal? No, check the training for Bajiquan, I bet it is the same if not more intense than Muay Thai. Point is, there are more intense stuff out there. I feel as if I needed to put this in the warzone but if you need to move it somewhere else, I don't mind. Just so you know, I got all my information and research on the internet. Correct me if I am wrong with anything.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 6:11:01 GMT -5
Muay Thai is essentially the modern sport (still a traditional martial art though) of the traditional Thai martial art called Muay Boran. They changed some rules such as gloves and no head butts for fighter safety and to make a better fighting spectle. Muay Boran was as violent as the styles you mentioned; Muay Lao, Tomoi, Lethwei, Bokator and Pradal Serey. I believe those martial arts and Muay Boran had a similar origin or greatly influenced each other.
I agree that Muay Thai is awesome but not the most deadly. There is evidence and testimonies of Muay Thai fighters being beaten by Kyokushin Karate fighters, Boxers and Kung Fu (Choy Li Fut) fighters.
The founder of Kyokushin Karate got a challenge from a Muay Thai fighter so he sent a group of fighters to Thailand and all but 1 beat the Muay Thai fighters.
Bruce Lee wrote that Choy Li Fut was the only Kung Fu style that went to Thailand and was not beaten by Muay Thai fighters.
Boxers did well against Muay Thai in the past as the punches in Muay Thai were basic. So they easily got their punches in. The result was that Muay Thai added Boxing punches to the martial art we know today.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 7:42:28 GMT -5
Kbachkun Boraan is to Bokator and Pradal Serey as Muay Boran is to Muay Thai. I think you should compare Kbachkun Boran to Muay Boran instead of its sibling martial arts.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on May 30, 2013 7:52:01 GMT -5
I don't think there is a 'Most Deadly Martial Art'. I agree with Glutton4Punishment that there are definitely crappy martial arts that should be avoided but I don't believe in a best of the top tier. If I broke your ribs would it really matter to you what style the technique came from? If you can break someone with it the rest of it's effectiveness rests on your shoulders. While Kyokushin guys were probably quite happy to do a number on their opponents they also took a lot away from the experience, training methods for example. I like to think I'm mostly a Kyokushin student but I'd be willing to bet I could pummel myself on the last days I spent at my Kyokushin school. The solid hours of sparring that I've recieved through Muay Thai have made my Kyokushin techniques that much more competent.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 8:26:26 GMT -5
I understand that Muay Thai is effective, as any martial art can be, but I think it is way too overrated and people who think that Muay Thai is "the most brutal and best" martial art should get a reality check. That's why I gave the examples of those other arts that are 99.9% the same as Muay Thai. What if for example Muay Lao, Bokator, Pradal Serey, Tomoi OR Lethwei took the place of Muay Thai as it is today, then would either of them be the most brutal and best martial art? It's all about exposure.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2013 1:02:02 GMT -5
It is exposure. That is why people say its the deadliest, people HAVE SEEN it be more effective than other arts.
When those other martial arts you mentioned become better known then Muay Thai will get less exposure and talking up.
The same thing happened with Wing Chun, Karate and TKD.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2013 1:47:14 GMT -5
Kbachkun Boraan is to Bokator and Pradal Serey as Muay Boran is to Muay Thai. I think you should compare Kbachkun Boran to Muay Boran instead of its sibling martial arts. I could but I don't think its correct to the unreliable nature of the historical records. The history of those arts gets murky the longer you look back in history. They are all very heavily influenced due to the power of the Khmer Empire had over the region. That is why many call them a collective term of Indochinese kickboxing. I wouldn't compare Kbachkun Boran to Pradal Serey as Pradal Serey is an unarmed martial art. There seems to be a difference in the region between armed and unarmed martial arts. My rough comparisons (and I'm not a fan of this due to the unreliable nature of the records from the region) would be- Thailand- Krabi krabong- Muay Boran (and then Muay Thai) Cambodia- Kbachkun Boran- Bokator- Pradal Serey Burma- Banshay- Lethwei Laos- Muay Boran- Muay Lao Malaysia- Difficult but as Tomoi is from northern Malaysia I would say probably Muay Boran. Not Silat as it is a southern Malaysian martial art with more in common with the martial arts of Indonesia and the Phillipines. As you can see, most of the countries have an armed martial art as the parent and the kickboxing as an unarmed martial art For further information read the following link on wikipedia. Not the best but gives an alright overview. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indochinese_kickboxing
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2013 17:41:14 GMT -5
I understand what you mean. There's also a Filipino martial art that's exactly like them too but I forgot the name. But yeah I wish exposure didn't (or couldn't) decide which martial art is the best to people, if you know what I mean by that.
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Post by kokoro on Jun 4, 2013 6:08:59 GMT -5
muay thai styles are more broken down by region or province from what little i looked into it. that region can have multiple styles all under the same name. like karate use to be. i think i traced back 15 to 25 styles when i was looking into this it makes it more difficult to research in some ways.
i notice a few countries do this with there systems.
as for muay thai being a modern sport that is up to debate, since muay thai is older then most of the arts you consider traditional, muay thai goes back to the mid 1500's. along with most of the styles , kokushinkai is around the 1960's, shotokan is 1936. goju ryu is the 1930's so no i dont consider muay thai modern dam i have to run to work. its my first day back from travailing for 3 weeks
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 3:20:28 GMT -5
Doesn't Muay Boran go back to the 1500's and Muay Thai was what was created when they added gloves, a ring etc in the early 1900's?
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Post by kokoro on Jun 5, 2013 9:41:17 GMT -5
the term karate came about in the early 1900's yet we say it goes back to the 1600's
muay thai is no different, the rules came about in the late 1500's, turning muay boran into the muay thai sport.
the real shame comes in the fact that many muay thai practitioners refuse to learn anything that is not with in the rules thus killing muay boran. its sad to lose any art
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 6, 2013 18:56:33 GMT -5
Muay Lao, Bokator, etc are just different names for the same thing. Nobody doing Muay Thai or Muay Lao really thinks they're doing a different art. The debate there mostly comes down to who was the original founder of the style. Also, Muay Thai is in no way inferior to these styles. It just uses safer training methods. That doesn't make the techniques any less effective, it just makes training in Muay Thai less of a stupid idea due to chance of injury that could have been avoided by not using stupid and outdated training methods like kicking and punching trees at full force. Many people also don't realize that Muay Thai isn't just a sport, it still contains illegal attacks like groin kicks and eye strikes but doesn't allow them in competition.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 6, 2013 19:00:12 GMT -5
Doesn't Muay Boran go back to the 1500's and Muay Thai was what was created when they added gloves, a ring etc in the early 1900's? Muay Boran is just a collective term for older Muay Thai styles. Muay Boran is still Muay Thai, and in the past was called Muay Thai as well. Muay Boran and Muay Thai can be the exact same thing depending on what context you're using each term in. Muay Thai/Muay Boran's age varies based on who you ask. Many will tell you it stretches back 2000 years or further. Muay Thai certainly wasn't "created" by adding gloves and other equipment to older Muay Thai styles. It's still as much a real combat style as it ever was, but it ALSO has it's sport side. I've had experience with both, my last Kru was from Thailand and taught all different applications and my new Coach has a larger focus on striking for MMA.
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Post by kokoro on Jun 6, 2013 22:21:39 GMT -5
Muay Thai isn't just a sport, it still contains illegal attacks like groin kicks and eye strikes but doesn't allow them in competition. its my understanding that muay thai fighters refuse to learn those techniques that are not allowed in competition, they see no point since its against the rules. Note this may be more related to practitioners in thailand then other countries.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jun 7, 2013 19:44:27 GMT -5
People of Thailand aren't any less individual than the people off the United States. It's going to be up to the practitioner what they want to focus on. My Kru was born and raised fighting in Thailand, started fighting at 13. He learned both and he teaches aspects of both. He's never indicated that techniques that aren't legal in the ring weren't played around with at all in Thailand or that they were unpopular, so I'd have to assume that your information is false.
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