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Post by rollingrock128 on Jul 30, 2012 22:05:13 GMT -5
because you are trained at punching someone. basically how its useful. and glutton off topic question is ur picture thing a knife?
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odee
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Post by odee on Jul 31, 2012 0:34:02 GMT -5
I don't even think the punching is the most important part of Boxing. The being punched is what makes it good, you're being punched by specialised punchers. But that's my two cents, the best way to understand any part of your arsenal is to fight someone who is far better at it than you are. Since anyone can use their hands to fight it makes sense that everyone should pay a visit to the people regarded as the best with their hands. Boxers.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 1, 2012 3:17:11 GMT -5
Yes it is useful but not because it has full contact sparring(which most gyms have now and before protective gear were mandatory). What makes boxing so good is that it teaches you to be more aggressive and you can see that with a lot of pro fighters and even young fighters, they are just more aggressive than others. The only flaw is that its gloved training and you can get a habit of sparring with gloves on, but in a real fight you have no gloves.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 1, 2012 6:18:07 GMT -5
That is a good point. Every Boxer knows someone who has broken or busted their hand(s) in a street fight but very few think it will ever happen to them.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 2, 2012 2:26:23 GMT -5
My Papa told me stories of how Boxers and Karate fighters would get into fights with gangs and random punters and these guys would get wasted to easily because they tried to fight with these men, but they weren't trying to end the fight. Thats one of the major things that separate Ring fighters from fight enders.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 11:14:25 GMT -5
You've lost me there. The major point of a ring fight is to win by knockout, submission, removal of will to fight or death depending on the kind of ring you're into, the gist is the same though, you win by ending your opponent. Any other victory is a minor one.
Knocked the f**k out. The other guy is down and unconcious - Fight ended.
Knocked down. Knock your opponent off his feet three times to take the win, knock your opponent off his feet once so that he can't or won't get up for an instant win - Fight ended.
Submission. Make your opponent cry uncle by threatening to break their joints - Fight ended.
Choked the f**k out. Deny your opponent blood or oxygen to the brain until they give up or pass out - Fight ended.
Dead. Kill your opponent so he can no longer bother you - Fight ended.
If you haven't somehow ticked a fight ending box your victory was a minor one. I'll add further for tournament styled formats that fight ending is far more efficient than letting a fight drag on, you will be at a major disadvantage if you wind up in a final after fighting six full matches and winning on points only to come face to face with a guy whose six rounds have only lasted seconds and been ended by major wins.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 2, 2012 15:40:56 GMT -5
odee- you forgot crippled or maimed lol and don't count out a caoperista on their back it's one of their best spots to be in. and submission is a temporary victoryu because when you leg go thats when you get stabbed unless you break it and thats one of the biggest things I learned from the gracies teaching the army, when the gracie guy tapped out the soldier the gracie guy thought the fight was over so he let go and the soldier pulled out his knife and faked to stab him and said "I won" lol and I don't want to risk that. I prefer what I call my ABC's of combat and they stand for= Air, Blood, Conscious, Destruction & Elimination. remove the air and you remove the threat because lack of oxygen will cause unconsciousness. remove the blood and you remove the threat because lack of blood will cause unconsciousness. remove the consciousness and you end the threat because a unconscious guy can't fight destroy their body has more limited application because you can break someones knee cap but they can still pull out a gun and shoot you but it's an important step if you can't get a, b or c first you damage them them go for abc again. eliminate is the final step if you fail to take their air, blood or conscious and destroying their body isn't working for you your only option left is eliminate them which is usually the easiest thing to do because you don't have to fight to kill someone you just have to kill them lol
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 19:26:06 GMT -5
A Capoerista who has been knocked down with screwed up legs or a good winding is still done for a good while Chef. Even if they can walk around on their hands they've lost the vast majority of their leg or core power. Very little of the power generated by those handstand attacks is generated by the arms, most of it still comes from the legs and core. You don't actually have to go so far as dislocating or breaking to disable someone's limb with a joint manipulation. Muscle strains and tears actually take longer to heal than broken bones and clean dislocations. It was a good lesson for the Gracie but a sparring session is not the same as the street, with the fear receptors opened and some adrenaline on the move I doubt a person would consider an advisary who still has the ability to tap to be a neutralised threat. Both Shamrock and Gordeau pointed out that Royce Gracie wasn't one for letting go even after a few rounds of tapping, he let go when the ref made him.
Guns change things, it's just what they do. Guns can end fights before they've even started and even after the gunner's ability to move has been neutralised because they're a ranged weapon that take very few gross motor movements to operate, knock-out and choke-out are still two of the better options avaliable and well within most ring fighter's abilities. Someone with a knife and a busted kneecap, winding or even a spasming thigh muscle is still going to have a hard time hurting you once you've moved outside their reach, you disable a person'ts leg and they pull a knife, move two metres back and they'll be hard pressed to get you, even if they throw the thing at you there will be space enough to see that move and dodge the knife.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 2, 2012 20:15:39 GMT -5
Boxing isn't just about knocking the other guy out, its also scoring points same as any combat sport. You can't always go for the knock out punch.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 2, 2012 20:18:22 GMT -5
odee- true but thats ifs, ands or butss... just because someone goes down doesn't mean they are hurt they could have been off ballance so even the slighest shove could have knocked them down like me I lost an amatuer boxing match because I tripped and it counted as a knockdown and because it was 3 knockdown rule I lost. as for spinning they do a lot more than that they grapple too it's a complete system and again if they were just knocked down due to being pushed off balance by your awesome strike. Also just because you hurt doesn't mean you can;t do anything people play through the pain and my old roommate andrew got stabbed 3 times in the gut and managed to beat the 2 guys so bad they had to go to the hospital so it depends on who your attaching because I got stabbed in the side once and I dropped like a fly. Another thing is guns don't always come out right away sometimes they come out after someone gets punched out and doesn't like to lose so they shoot you after to appease their ego and same with knives they usually come out when your tangled up and can't get away they start carving out your liver. I've lived a different life than you and rolled with some bad people I've seen some crazy stuff and I know some bad people out there are highly trained martial artsists like my old weed dealer was a 7th degree black belt in shotokan and he was tough as nails and your average martial artist who thinks they could fight him would get killed because I know he could kill me and I've trained for 15 years. I hate it when I hear chances are you won't run into a trained person but what if you do? are you just screwed? you are only if you don't train to fight those people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 21:04:38 GMT -5
Points are a minor win. Getting a knockout on another fighter is hard work Rikashiku. They know that's what you're planning to do and they're trained to defend themselves against it. You watch a Boxer as soon as they realise that the knockout is a possibility, caution gets thrown to the wind as is the very notion of points. Nobody WANTS to get hit for an extra two to twelve rounds if they can help it.
I hate to say it Chef but if you fell over three times with very little help from your opponent you really need to work on that whole staying upright skill. I know what you're saying but there is no martial art that can guarantee your safety if you've decided to let someone live and they decide to ambush you later with a gun or a knife, in that regard Boxing is as good as anything else. The only possible way to guarantee your safety is going to wind you up on death row, in jail or a mental institution and that is the no mercy approach, if somebody fucks with you, you kill them. Same with other martial artists, if the person attacking you is a trained fighter then your only real hope is having better ability than they do or enough fighting experience to nulify the ability they possess, ring fighters usually possess more experience than other martial artists of the same training time.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 2, 2012 21:25:04 GMT -5
maybe I should have been more clear I got knocked down twice and tripped the 3rd time but they were all my fault for being off balance when I was way younger lol
And the streets are a lot like death roe with poeple out there not giving a fuck because they think they might die tonight anyway and they exist I've met them and was one and my life's screwed up because I never figured I would life to be 25 which is in 2 months lol so not everyone out there has the same mind set as you and some will kill you and throw your body in a hole with lime and never things about it again.
remember not every murder is solved.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 21:48:27 GMT -5
You're right. I don't have a killer's mindset, most of the people I throw out of the bars I've worked in don't have killer's mindsets either and since I worked in two coastal harbour clubs that did include foreign naval personell. The vast majority of situations that I've had to get involved in had no melicious intent, they were mostly cases of rowdy people picking fights with the bouncers. Since 90% of the adult population is less inclined to fight than the people I was throwing out of those clubs I think it's fair to say that knocking someone down will intimidate them enough that they won't want another run-in with you. Killing them just isn't an option so the ring objectives like knock-down, knock-out or tap-out will usually be the best options.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 2, 2012 21:58:48 GMT -5
That's very true and why I always say "It depends on the situation" and "it depends on the person" because the same thing in the hands of a cold blooded killer out to do damage will be use different than in the hands of your average joe just defending himself.
remember when two tigers fight one dies because tigers fight to kill and nothing else.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 22:08:38 GMT -5
Tiger fights rarely end in death. Tiger's have more survival instinct than ego and when they're beat they bolt. As for the winning tiger it lets the other tiger go rather than risk the injury that might occur if it corners the other cat.
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