Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 2, 2012 22:10:57 GMT -5
shut up it's an old chinese adverb lol but it's meaning still holds true.
when 2 people who know how to kill and are out to kill chances are one will die lol is that better?
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Post by jwbulldogs on Aug 2, 2012 22:17:23 GMT -5
Boxing is very useful on self defense if the person using it is skilled. Not everyone that has trained in boxing is good at it just like everyone that has trained in karate, bjj, kung fu, etc are not good at it.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Aug 2, 2012 22:26:12 GMT -5
And this is where you are correct Chef. Some humans have more ego than survival instinct and are more protective of that image than of their own hide. But those people are usually pretty easy to identify and pacify. That kind of ego-maniac can usually be quelled with a free beer and a compliment. Either that or I find out if I was right or wrong about my capability for homicide. Seriously, considering the personality jumps I had to make to go from wuss to someone who doesn't mind fighting it would be interesting to find out if homicide is just another jump or if I've become as violent as I'll ever be.
That's true JW but if you suck you suck and there is usually no getting around it no matter what you practice.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 3, 2012 3:48:41 GMT -5
Points also make up the majority of victories for any professional fighter. All fighters will aim for the KO to end the fight as quickly as possible, but all will also use a tight guard to prevent this, hence the time to rounds and why fitness is a big deal for professional fighters, bigger than KO power.
In a real fight, its not the KO power or the fitness that matters, but whether or not you can end the fight quickly whether its by KO or a broken appendage.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 3, 2012 8:00:07 GMT -5
And again the ring fighter will be more experienced in this area because the ring fighter spends more time trying to work through better defenses, their timing is better, their ring craft will give them advantages and they're used to fighting new people. In any situation that involves hitting people who don't want to be hit ring fighters are always going to be well represented in the top tiers. In any fight the most important thing is your ability to apply the techniques you know regardless of situation and ring fighters will always show well in those areas.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 3, 2012 8:47:31 GMT -5
odee- your generalizing all sports people under the same banner as people who can adapt which clearly james toney, championship boxer couldn't do and there are even more variables in a street fight than an mma match.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 3, 2012 18:53:46 GMT -5
That's not a particularly fair comparison, a guy who's been a mixed martial artist for eight months tops against an opponent who has been the title holder for that sport across multiple divisions and organisations, expecting to beat someone at their own game on your first attempt is silly that's why we admire people who manage it. Look at Antonio Inoki, got a list of last minute rules heaped on him and came up with a successful strategy in the ring.
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rikashiku
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Post by rikashiku on Aug 3, 2012 23:19:14 GMT -5
Statistics are null and void in a real fight. You can have a peak response defense but still be overwhelmed by a broader attacker. Even though I've been assaulted by guys larger than me(and I'm not exactly small myself), I've always found that my quickness wont always overcome them because they're just so much stronger than I am.
Even a peak fighter can be defeated by a beginner. A fight in the ring or in the gym is much different to how it will work in real life.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 4, 2012 9:59:23 GMT -5
odee- exactly again it comes down to the person isn't that weird... a boxer of 30 years should be able to beat a wrestler of 30 years but it's harder if the rules favour grappling like mma does but a boxing match would have been much different unless somehow randy could have adapted to the rules. but again in mma if james got a good solid power punch to randys face before randy took him down he would had a better chance and where randys tactics helped him. style doesn't matter in the end it's the person!!!!!!!!!!!! and combat sports aren;t styles thay are just part of a style like the sport of boxing is just the punches & footwork of boxing and the sport of karate is just the punches & kicks from karate & the sport ofjudo is just the throws & armbars of judo etc. hell even bjj & judo have strikes but it's not in the sport so none of the athletes ever learn it but the self-defence fighters do it's interesting...
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 5, 2012 6:18:23 GMT -5
If Toney had learned something from the experience and stuck around for the number of fights he was supposed to participate in who knows, he may have surprised everyone by kicking some ass but he got out while the getting was good Ring fighting is a tool of certain styles and a major one at that. You should be able to see that just on the fact that schools and organisations that tend not to have any kind of full contact competition also tend to produce students who can't fight worth a damn. The only time this changes is when they actually have legitimately traditional training and fight with intent, get hurt and learn painful lessons.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Aug 14, 2012 23:48:34 GMT -5
but if he just trained a style that included ground fighting & take down defence to begin with he wouldn't have to stick around and learn something he might have actually won instead lol
and don't generalize tma as styles that don't spar full contact because most of the good ones do your saying they are all mcdojos lol and the ones who aren't mcdojos and say they don't spar really mean they beat the shit out of each other like pugpaws and don't think of it as sparring because it's more like a real match than a sparring match.
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odee
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Post by odee on Aug 15, 2012 3:08:19 GMT -5
Possibly, it's also entirely possible he'd have remained a nobody and never gotten a shot to begin with.
I make generalisations when they're fair and that one is more than fair. Traditional schools that actually train in a properly traditional manner are as rare as rocking horse shit. They're rare because people buy into that hockey crap about being able to learn to fight without ever getting hit. I've said before that I don't doubt technique and I don't. I doubt people's ability to apply those techniques. For every truly worthwhile Taekwando school in the world there are four more with far more students learning it in bubblewrap or as little more than a dance. For every decent Karate school it's much the same story and Jujutsu, Aikido ect, ect. Combat sports tend to lack this issue because people who take them up usually understand that to learn how to fight you have to learn how to hit while being hit and to gain customers you have to prove that you're a good teacher by producing students who win. I'd love to see traditional styles return to the way they should be but until there is a way of making those teachers prove the usefulness of their lessons crappy teachers will continue producing crappy students and it will remain a fair generalisation to say most traditional schools don't teach their students how to apply those techniques.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Sept 5, 2012 1:32:46 GMT -5
From my experiences the traditional martial arts follow the 1% rule where 99% are stupid and have no idea what they are doing then you have 1% who really has their $#!+ together and are forces to be reckoned with.
I've met people who have never sparred a day in their life's but instead have been in real fights instead and they are people you don't want to mess with because they never learned how to play around because they were forced to learn how to deal out serious damage or possibly die.
kinda like learning how to swim taking swimming lessons or being thrown into a maelstrom, the people with lessons will be good swimmers but the people who got thrown into the maelstrom will either die or become good enough swimmers to get out of it that swimming lessons wouldn't even give you.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 5, 2012 8:24:34 GMT -5
I do agree with that to a certain degree... Depends how they've been trained before they got thrown into the maelstrom. If we're using water as a metaphor I'd compare Kickboxing and Boxing to an Olympic swimming pool, MMA is a river and Vale Tudo is an ocean swim. The guys who have been in the competitions (pools, rivers and ocean) might not have been in the storm but I'd be willing to bet a larger percentage of them would make it out alive than people who have never sparred (never been in the water). Sink or swim is a real test but by being a swimmer at least you can stack the deck in your favour.
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