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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 3:36:50 GMT -5
Is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu an offshoot of a Japanese martial art or now a truly Brazilian martial art?
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Post by the tank on Oct 31, 2012 9:55:35 GMT -5
Most martial arts come from another one, or different ones.
BJJ comes from Judo, but Judo has changed so much (thanks to the Olympics), that now it's getting harder to see the resemblance.
You could consider it a Brazilian art.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 1:13:26 GMT -5
Or the rules/focus of BJJ have made it look less like Judo I'll consider it Japanese that has evolved in Brazil.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 3, 2012 20:24:56 GMT -5
By that logic you can consider Karate to be half Chinese.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 1:47:17 GMT -5
Actually I consider Karate to be an Okinawan martial art (not Japanese) that is the child of Chinese martial arts and Okinawan Te
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 4, 2012 5:00:34 GMT -5
And I said what exactly regarding Japan?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 20:34:00 GMT -5
And I said what exactly regarding Japan? You said by that logic you could consider Karate to be half Chinese (which I don't disagree with) and I said I consider it to be half Chinese and half Okinawan. I was simply presenting my view that I do consider true Karate to be half Chinese and not trying to make any disagreement. You didn't say anything regarding Japan. My post wasn't just directed at you but I put in the not-Japanese part for the others who read this thread and may not understand the difference between the Okinawans and Japanese. My view is that Karate is half Chinese and half Okinawan in heritage. And after researching BJJ, I am leaning towards saying BJJ is half Japanese and half Brazilian too.
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Keyboard Warrior
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on Nov 5, 2012 1:41:24 GMT -5
It's a Brazilian art that resembles part of a Japanese art (newaza Judo). To give neither country credit for BJJ is just plain wrong.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Nov 7, 2012 23:09:07 GMT -5
BJJ as it is today is about 80% developed by the Gracie family, not just taken straight from Judo with different rules. The blood and sweat of the family has gone into developing techniques that never before existed in Judo and Japanese Jujitsu. They really are innovators. To rob the Gracies of the credit they've earned by developing the art into what it is today is a rude slap in the face and unwarranted whether you like them or not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2012 3:46:21 GMT -5
Yes, the Gracies added much to BJJ and gave it a Brazilian flavour. However still many techniques and the Gi are Japanese in origin.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 11, 2012 1:42:54 GMT -5
I'd think the gracies added the hierarchy of positions to the ground game & some wrestling takedowns to bjj and lost some judo throws & strikes but other than that they didn't do much that Jigero Kano didn't already do.
Most bjj takedowns & submissions are in judo and it's ridiculous to think otherwise.
It's funny in my bjj class I already know a bunch of the stuff they are trying to teach me submission wise but the main differences are in judo we go from throw to submission and avoid the whole sweeping/passing game that bjj is all about for dominant position.
Judo focuses on dominant position too but it's more from the throw while bjj bypasses the dominant throw for the sweep/pass game they have developed over the years while the judoka lands in position for a submission upon landing if they do it right..
But looking at old judo videos of mizutane & kimura it's obvious bjj had everything in bjj they just went about doing things differently than each other.
I also think a lot of people leave kosen judo & catch wrestling out of the equation of the evolution of bjj which maeda was a practitioner of both.
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Post by Mr Wonderful on Nov 11, 2012 2:15:40 GMT -5
@chefsamurai Did you ever see any of the more 'unusual' bjj stuff, like berimbolos or any de la riva work when you did/do judo?
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 11, 2012 3:04:50 GMT -5
No but that's more to do with lineage since anyone can make up submissions as long as they understand what they are doing.
And if I do bjj and I make up a move does it become a bjj move or is it my move? or even if I teach it to all my students and they teach it to all their friends is it a bjj move or a bjj move from my lineage?
And I've seen lots of stuff that doesn't even have names.
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Post by Mr Wonderful on Nov 12, 2012 3:09:01 GMT -5
Cool, I've never done judo so I'm interested as to how similiar the ground game is to bjj.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 12, 2012 18:01:21 GMT -5
I think it all boils down to how you give ownership. The Gracies did drastically change the flavour of the style when they put more emphasis on the groundwork so if the characteristics are how you define a style BJJ is 100% Brazilian. If you define it by technique it can probably still be called 70% Japanese Jujutsu. Even Judo would still be 90% Jujutsu by that definition. Shotokan and Goju-ryu are worlds apart in character and technique but both are Karate, does that mean the only things that tie them together are name and birthplace? So what does that mean for Kyokushin? Kyokushin was developed in Japan by a Korean. Does that mean names and techniques are the most valid connections?
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