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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 23:55:04 GMT -5
I was reading something a while back and I recall reading something that said Karate was created by the influences of Fujian White Crane and saying basically it is the Japanese version of White Crane. Is this true? If anyone knows the history of Karate, could anyone give me an in-depth explanation of it?
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odee
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Post by odee on May 6, 2013 6:52:58 GMT -5
Okinawan version of White Crane might be stretching the relationship a bit far. Okinawan Karate is influenced by about four or five different martial arts, Chinese Kempo/Kenpo(Possibly white Crane), Tai Chi, Tode wrestling, Kobudo and Japanese Jujutsu. With that many flavours mixed in it becomes it's own dish.
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Post by kokoro on May 6, 2013 18:26:22 GMT -5
there are a lot of carious countries that influenced okinawa. okinawa was a trading port in asia. ships docked there from various countries all over asia, as they docked there the foreigners not only exchanged goods but fighting techniques, and the okinawans added these into there styles. china was one of the main influences of okinawan te being combined with tode. the main or one of the first influances of tode were the 36 chinese families that moved to okinawa in the late 1600's i beleive or maybe it was the late 1300's. (I'll have to check my notes for the dates the history an influences of chinese martial arts are inside the older kata of karate. each kata is a separate style from a kung fu system, forms of white crane were among them as well as black tiger style, dragons styles, tiger style, dog style, several shaolin styles and several other styles
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 21:22:40 GMT -5
Thank you Kokoro and Odee for the explanations. So Karate isn't the interpretation of White Crane in the Japanese point of view and Karate is just influenced by a number of different arts?
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odee
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Post by odee on May 7, 2013 2:35:01 GMT -5
Pretty much. Trying to find definites in Karate's liniage is like trying to make a family tree for a stray mongrel dog, there's just too much that isn't known. Too many names have been lost to history or were never written down in the first place.
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Post by kokoro on May 7, 2013 7:26:24 GMT -5
try researching kata it is a little easier
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 14:43:42 GMT -5
Hmm, that's really interesting. So no one will ever know the true origin of Karate. It makes sense that it's assumed that it was created due to cultural diffusion.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 17:36:31 GMT -5
The history of each individual Kata shows us the history of the style more than who taught who etc.
They can also show us the different influences better too. Take Chito-ryu for example, by looking at the katas we can see the influence of Shorin-ryu and Goju-ryu on the founder. Shito-ryu is similar too.
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odee
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Post by odee on May 9, 2013 20:34:01 GMT -5
Following kata is a better method than chasing names but it will still lead you to dead ends and assumptions. I can follow Seipai for example from Kyokushin to Goju-Ryu then back to Kenpo in China where about fifty styles claim ownership of the form.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 20:54:34 GMT -5
Following Seipai still gets you to China though. That's more than some get
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Post by kokoro on May 10, 2013 20:31:48 GMT -5
Either method is not easy, buy following kata is simpler in some ways.
Seipai is a core kata, and influanced many styles. Plus you are forgetting kata is the style, each kata is its own style in itself. Today we treat kata as part of the style, back a century ago kata was the style
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 0:12:07 GMT -5
Chito-ryu kata would be one of the more difficult as the founder often changes aspects but kept the names of katas he was taught.
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odee
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Post by odee on May 11, 2013 20:50:44 GMT -5
I think chasing history is kind of pointless for the most part, better to worry about the here and now. Are you getting good training or aren't you?
The only time I really think worrying about history is amusing is listening to Bujinkan students bagging other styles' histories then trying to verify their style by a lineage that has been shot down repeatedly by historians.
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Post by kokoro on May 12, 2013 6:50:28 GMT -5
To search for the old is to understand the new.
The old, the new This is a matter of time.
In all things man must have a clear mind.
The Way: Who will pass it on straight and well?
Poem by Master Funakoshi.
Every thing done today came from the past, in order to know where you are going you should find out where you have been
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odee
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Post by odee on May 14, 2013 19:28:34 GMT -5
That is a fine poem and most techniques I use are older than the hills, I get that Kokoro but worrying after what came from where seems a bit pointless.
Then again, if people discovered that learning martial arts used to be a long, painful experience maybe McDojos would die out again.
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