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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 23, 2012 22:54:58 GMT -5
My last comment has little or nothing to do with point sparring. I don't think there can be much confusion as to what point sparring is. Point sparring is simple. If you make contact to a scoring area and the judge or referees agree the contest is momentarily stopped and the point is awarded. Just like every other sport there is the element of human error. One judge may see the point another may miss the point. The intent and or force used in these competitions aren't the same as I would use if I'm trying to save my life. The target areas are not the same as I would used in my life is threatened. The strategy is not the same as I would use in self defense. I don't walk around with protective headgear, foot gear, or hand gear. In a sports competition there is little threat there may be a weapon involved. Most of these guys have no idea of what to do if there is a weapon involved that is seen. Most of these guys if they are hit or kicked in the groins can't fight through that. In my opinion most of these guys are not prepared for real self defense. Sure there are exceptions. I know some guys that own some adult clubs. They hire bouncers like yourself. He has had many of these guys that were boxers or mma guys that come in and boast on how they can handle anything that might happen in the club. These are big guys too. But they get their head handed to them in the club by little guys with no training. Some of the best bouncers they have had no training.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 24, 2012 8:35:58 GMT -5
I'm a bar-tender who can and has backed up the bouncers and has bouncer training but I'm not employed as a bouncer, nor will I ever be, my stutter causes trouble it doesn't prevent it. I've met people who boast about their 'fighting skills' like that too, more often than not they have little or no training and the bouncers refer to them as 'Blow Hards', 'Puffballs' or 'Fanboys'.
The difference I'm trying to point out with the points stacking is that the intent and force ARE there, a fighter can go from copping a hiding to taking the match in fractions of a second with a knockout blow and if the other fighter isn't expecting it he's an idiot who deserves to have all the effort he put in up to that point rendered irrelevant, just like a person who lapses in any kind of a fight will suffer for lowering a guard. Confidence plays a huge role in how I perform in any fight but I have to fight to keep myself from getting arrogant, being put in hospital several times has made that fight easier and I wouldn't have had those trips if it hadn't been for Karate, Muay Thai and MMA competitions. I agree that if someone has had too much success it can be bad for them but I believe that having someone supposedly of the same level put you on your ass no matter how hard you try is something everyone should go through and I've never seen that happen in any place as often as it happens in full-contact competitions.
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Post by jwbulldogs on Sept 27, 2012 2:07:28 GMT -5
I know bouncers that have had no training and can hold there own in practically in situations on the street and in the clubs. But these people will not have as much success in the ring/cage or other sporting event. Just competing in a combat sport doesn't always translate to being good at self defense. I agree that it can help and give the person with training better odds. I also know those that have trained with me or by me that are bouncer, personal body guards or other types of security that can handle practically any situation. I know those that compete and do well that if we are together and something was to go down I'd had to save them against a good string attack and they'll think they can handle it and can't. I've had to do that. I have another friend that competes that in self defense he will probable end up in jail after he kills the guys trying to attack him. He is good at what he does and he good at teaching for sports, but he not good at teaching self defense. He can teach a fighter to fight, but the lady that has never been in a fight or someone that has been abused that now wants to know how to defend themselves he wouldn't be a person I'd recommend. That person will learn good techniques that will help a skilled fighter but it won't help her.She wouldn't have the strength nor mentality to use those techniques. But if you were a fighter and needed some help to train for an fight coming up he could help you. If you need someone to roll with he could help.
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odee
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Post by odee on Sept 29, 2012 16:44:50 GMT -5
Yet people can go twenty or more years in a martial art that has no competition or poor competition and not know that they are still afraid of being hit and will still freeze when assaulted. Their twenty years of knowledge compilation equates to exactly jack squatt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 5:41:14 GMT -5
The mentality of an assault is difficult for both traditional and combat martial arts to understand.
I know a guy (my mate's work colleague) who trains in Aikido and he can hold his own well. He is a police man (in the Kings Cross, Darlinghurst and Surry Hills region of Sydney) and has had to use it numerous times for survival. These include knives, weapons like bats and strikes. He knows how to mentally handle those situations.
Another guy I trained with in MMA, got the absolute crap kicked out of him in a fight outside a pub in the Sydney CBD. He is actually a top ranked MMA fighter in Sydney and fights in the Cage Fighting Championship which is Australia's top MMA organisation. In the fight, he froze and couldn't mentally handle the vicious nature of the fight.
I know comparing a policeman and MMA fighter to ordinary people is a bit extreme but it shows my point. It is the person who has the best ability to handle aggression mentally better who will survive. A student of a combat sport might be better trained in getting hit in a controlled environment but some and I say some TMA's handle the mental side better. It is the individual who handles it that matters. But I do believe that in today's context, Combat sports like Muay Thai and MMA prepare the student better on average. They teach full contact or close to it and the 'thrill' of the fight. TMA's should be better as they teach martial arts for self defense in their focus but so many teach a watered down kiddies or McDojo version. Or they focus on a mystical mental and philosophical side to it that has no practical basis. A real TMA school is worth it's weight in gold.
Read the writing and videos of Geoff Thompson and Richard Grannon. They are men who work the doors of Englands most violent clubs and their teachings on self defense and the mental side of violence is great.
"The Fence" technique taught by Geoff Thompson should be used by all martial artists.
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odee
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Post by odee on Oct 2, 2012 8:26:35 GMT -5
Should be is all well and good but more often than not they don't. I've stated before that I've seen and trained with properly traditional guys and their rest period had more in common with a hospital waiting room than a drink break but schools like that are as rare as the proverbial rocking-horse shit. The closest you'll regularly find to that kind of hell is in martial arts that have a full-contact competition attached to them. Most of the 'Traditional' schools in my area and most of the world don't even come close and that's because they've lost the rivalry and heated sparring that made students of each style worth noticing in the first place. Full-contact competition has that, it always has that and that is what forces students to grow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 23:16:27 GMT -5
odee.....I couldn't agree more with you. It actually angers me that people pay good money for martial arts and self defense and all they get is shite. A mate of mine is a brown belt in Shotokan (SKIF school) and a guy assaulted him in Ultimo. He tried to block (I think it was an Age-uke/rising block) the punch but all he got was a clean shot to his check. Cut him open and copped a kicking. He should have been taught to dodge or parry the punch. Bad teaching gave him false security and injury. Generally a Boxer, Kickboxer or Thai boxer would have stood a better chance. Interestingly another friend does WTF Taekwondo and he can dodge and parry strikes better than my friends who do Shotokan.
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odee
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Post by odee on Oct 4, 2012 18:14:17 GMT -5
The big question is can his classmates? If they can then it's simply a better school, if they can't then he's an exception that shouldn't be counted.
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