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Post by rollingrock128 on Nov 26, 2012 14:41:01 GMT -5
the best excuse is "they teach not to use our techniques unless we have to that's why there are no videos of it being used in real life" I'm pretty sure every martial art coach preaches that but yet I have seen boxing muay thai bjj even karate and capoeira used in street fights on youtube.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 26, 2012 15:49:52 GMT -5
Heh, the Kung Fu code...
By the by...check this shit out.
Padded they may be but it has the makings of something interesting.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 26, 2012 15:59:09 GMT -5
From my experience self-defense folks by nature of their training do not know how to handle themselves well when under a confrontation, because they don't continually train under pressure.
However, myself and many others teach protection in what the sports folks call "live" training. To me this is not "live" training, but resistance training. We get plenty of fat lips and bruises, but the focus is on protection, not competetion, and there is nothing sporting in any way. The only rule in protection is to prevail, because the other result (death or injury) is simply not acceptable.
Bjj may have 1,000,000 wins in mma but it has 1,000,000,000 losses too... and what excuse do people have for them except the practitioners who lost are not as good as those who won? meaning it's the person lol
If it were the style that was the best every bjj guy would win every time no matter what because it's the best but the track record shows a very different reality indeed.
Not every jiujitero is as good as rickson gracie or rigan machado... peple are different it's a fact that people are different.
I forgot to add this part BJJers are cultists and the new TMAists. It's all about the Gi, Lineage, and loyalty to your sensei and martial art. Everything else sucks.
Even though maeda was a judoka & catch wrestler and rickson gracie practiced sambo & wrestling... bjj is the end all & be all... lmfao
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 26, 2012 16:22:02 GMT -5
Here's another one.
It's got an interesting addition of power-pushing. I'd like to get more sparring practice with that kind of thing, I mean I use short movement shoulder strikes when I compete but sparring applied pushes like that would be a real boon towards distance control. Not a lot of people use that kind of tactic because it's risky, it's a fully committed movement which opens the user to massive falls under even the most basic of foot-sweeps.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 26, 2012 17:07:10 GMT -5
True and not so true Chef. After all, BJJ schools are often attached to some other kind of school - Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, Wrestling, Kickboxing or Karate - for cultists that's a pretty big concession that maybe their way isn't truly complete. But how many fighters can you name in the top levels of MMA that have absolutely no BJJ training? There are people with no Karate, no Muay Thai, no Judo, no Wrestling, No Boxing or no Kickboxing but no style has such a complete lock on one element as BJJ does on groundwork. But you're right about one thing, the common TMA mindset is to reject everything that your own style doesn't encompass and a lot of BJJ schools and students are going down the path of believing that their style is the best standalone with no intention of racking up experience against other stylists the way the Gracies did. I don't know why so many people so regularly overlook the value of experience. Learning the moves of a martial art is all good and well but they don't count for jack until people have learned to apply those moves under all manner of conditions. I did a Kickboxing match against a Taekwando student who was much faster than me and put him down within a minute completely due to his lack of experience with leg kicks, his stance was perfect for a ruleset that lacked those kicks but what he didn't know was it completely exposed the back of his legs to a beating, took me a bit to land one of those kicks because of the speed the stance gave him but one was all it took. I suffered a similar fate the first time I entered a match that allowed throws. I started the match with a big lunging kick that could sometimes catch people napping and end matches immediately, worst thing that ever happened in a Kickboxing match was the kick was blocked or dodged, my throwing opponent immediately caught and countered, I wound up in a crumpled heap in the corner. That expeience made me far more cautious in using such big moves. I pointed out in another thread that the 'Modern' mindset is actually the oldest of martial mindsets, it's the mindset of MMA, the mindset of JKD, the mindset of Karate and the mindset that started martial arts. Watch what successful fighters do, learn it and test it to death before adding it to your own fighting skill-set.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 27, 2012 8:11:32 GMT -5
ture but i'm talking about the bjj purists that just do bjj at said school and arenlt really mma people just bjj fan boys more or less but then even many are still all about their lineage, gi's & teachers and crap it's just like tma in that respect. sakuraba, brock lesnar, josh barnett, gokor, marco ruas and many more & although barnett got his bjj black belt in a day it was because he demonstrated the whole syllabus from white to black under eric paulson (a catch wrestler too) and has mad grappling skills and admittedly never took a bjj class in his life. a gracie helped create ufc which popularized mma and they use bjj terminology almost exclusively because most people are bjjers in mma and the rules are designed around bjj for ground fighting and it's hard to get good training in catch wrestling or sambo or judo but some can get it and are good themselves. I've had bad experiences switching over too especially doing judo in sambo compitions I got beat so bad my teacher had to bring in his teacher to show us old stuff not legal in judo anymore & I did a lot better even though it was just 2 leg locks it was much better than nothing and I learned lots from the sambo guys despite me not having any training. I pointed out in another thread that the 'Modern' mindset is actually the oldest of martial mindsets, it's the mindset of MMA, the mindset of JKD, the mindset of Karate and the mindset that started martial arts. Watch what successful fighters do, learn it and test it to death before adding it to your own fighting skill-set. Great point I couldn't have said it better myself!
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 27, 2012 14:57:12 GMT -5
Damn, you got me. Just about every time I watch UFC it's a master of something and a BJJ blackbelt. I guess I don't watch enough.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 28, 2012 18:04:49 GMT -5
yeah they ALWAYS emphasis someones bjj experience even if they are a collegiate wrestling champion who did bjj for 2 weeks they talk about how much it changed them but they don't mention they quit bjj to go to catch or sambo because they are more suited to a wrestlers skillet.
Even the announcers use practically pure bjj terminology and when the fighters use staple techniques from other styles they are baffled by it.
A good examples is this
they call almost all armlocks behind the back a "kimura" but a "kimura" is a shoulder lock and in judo an "ude-garami" is an elbow lock & in catch a "double wrist lock" is a mixed elbow & shoulder lock pulling on the tendons in the arm too, thus making all 3 different techniques .
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 28, 2012 18:54:10 GMT -5
Now who was telling me this... I remember someone saying that Mas Oyama studied Goju-ryu alongside a certain Masahiko Kimura under So-Nei-Chu.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 28, 2012 22:25:28 GMT -5
hmmm tats cool I never knew that Kimura & Oyama trained together in karate lol
I knew they were contemporaries but I had no clue they trained together!
I also know Mas is a ranked Dan in Judo but I don't know who by, maybe it's Kmura?
And it's funny you mention kimura because I just posted a link to a video how his famous wrist lock is done that the gracies copied incorrectly
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 29, 2012 6:06:48 GMT -5
Dunno. It's hard to tell where reality ends and fiction begins when you try to find out about Oyama. I do doubt that Oyama gained rank under Kimura though because I believe he was military trained while Kimura was police trained. But considering Kimura was about fifteen years older than Oyama and already a much higher grade when they trained together I think Oyama would have learned a great deal from him.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 29, 2012 21:55:27 GMT -5
It's hard to tell where reality ends and fiction begins when you try to find out about Oyama. lol so true & same with a few other guys I won't mention I do doubt that Oyama gained rank under Kimura though because I believe he was military trained while Kimura was police trained. But considering Kimura was about fifteen years older than Oyama and already a much higher grade when they trained together I think Oyama would have learned a great deal from him. I think so too & I train with people all the time and learn new stuff but I don't call them teachers or coaches or whatever. Once people put their ego's aside they can learn from just about anyone if they let them teach them it.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 30, 2012 15:27:36 GMT -5
There are only five martial artists I've faced and learned nothing from. I knocked two out in my first shot, the other three knocked me out in the first shot.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Nov 30, 2012 17:10:23 GMT -5
It's got an interesting addition of power-pushing. I'd like to get more sparring practice with that kind of thing, I mean I use short movement shoulder strikes when I compete but sparring applied pushes like that would be a real boon towards distance control. Not a lot of people use that kind of tactic because it's risky, it's a fully committed movement which opens the user to massive falls under even the most basic of foot-sweeps. I use it often but it's all about timing and body positioning like all moves I guess... Your best bet is to use a "bursting" attack is when they are off guard like after a deflection or a missed strike of their own thee counter. Another good way is to step offline like a swordsman and hit them from the flank and smash a kidney or something and really hurt them.
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odee
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Post by odee on Nov 30, 2012 23:52:06 GMT -5
That's why I was saying I'd love to get some sparring training with it. Find out the best possible times to use it.
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