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Post by rollingrock128 on Jul 13, 2012 21:04:55 GMT -5
I respect all arts to work somewhere in life. They will alll work(if taught properly) on an average joe who doesn't know how to fight. I used to hate on aikido until i realized it was perfect for law enforcement. Other than that i really feel as though a MMA fighter would win 9/10 against a traditional martial artist. ESPECIALLY if that art is standup. you can't stop the double leg you're screwed. What is your opinion?
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Chef Samurai
Global Moderator
Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 13, 2012 21:14:44 GMT -5
I don't know of any styles that don't train ground fighting so it's hard to say exactly all I know of is just sports that disallow it to the rules so you may have to elaborate.
sport styles I mean sport taekwondo, sport karate, sport judo etc
like sport judoka don't learn to strike but traditional hudoka do & sport taekwondoin don't learn to grapple but traditional taekwondoin do & same with karate & muay thai & tons of styles.
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ZenGenesis
Orange Belt
~As Artes Marciais 7 Anos~
Posts: 125
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Post by ZenGenesis on Jul 14, 2012 5:44:10 GMT -5
It all depends on the fighter and the instructor (as you may already know).
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jul 14, 2012 13:39:16 GMT -5
I don't know of any styles that don't train ground fighting so it's hard to say exactly all I know of is just sports that disallow it to the rules so you may have to elaborate. How many of them teach ground fighting that actually works? I've seen a lot of BS out there.
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Keyboard Warrior
Head Administrator
Ze Führer
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Practitioner
Posts: 721
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Post by Keyboard Warrior on Jul 14, 2012 14:00:38 GMT -5
I don't know of any styles that don't train ground fighting so it's hard to say exactly all I know of is just sports that disallow it to the rules so you may have to elaborate. How many of them teach ground fighting that actually works? I've seen a lot of BS out there. This. We worked ground in Karate....and it was terrible. I would wipe the floor with any of them, even my sifu, if I was able to take it to the ground. Really, unless you're a black belt, in your style, I don't see you knowing what to do if someone goes into take you down...much less what to do, when you are on the ground. I'll just bullrush people sometimes, and they have no clue what to do...but by the time they get a clear sense of what I'm doing, its too late and they're on the ground.
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Post by alwaysawhitebelt on Jul 14, 2012 15:02:41 GMT -5
I am an unstoppable force. I train anti-grappling technique with master wong. nobody can take me down, our anti-grappling techniques are proven to stop any kind of takedown.
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Post by Glutton4Punishment on Jul 14, 2012 17:18:46 GMT -5
I am an unstoppable force. I train anti-grappling technique with master wong. nobody can take me down, our anti-grappling techniques are proven to stop any kind of takedown. Not sure if serious...
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Post by youxia on Jul 14, 2012 17:23:29 GMT -5
lol is Master Wong that psycho on youtube who swears and shouts all the time?
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Post by alwaysawhitebelt on Jul 14, 2012 19:22:30 GMT -5
I take serious offense to that. master wong uses his chi energy to stop attack, to an untrained person it may sound like shouting and yelling, but he is projecting his energy into others. hahahaha okay, no i'm not serious. while he does have some good stuff, his "grappling" videos were pretty funny, I tried to find them but alas I couldn't, i'm pretty sure KW has them though as he posted them on YA a while back lol
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Chef Samurai
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Canadian Catch Wrestling
Posts: 843
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 14, 2012 19:31:43 GMT -5
anti grappling is the stupidest thing I ever heard lol from my understanding grappling isn't just taking someone to the ground but it's not getting taken to the ground or getting locked up and all that stuff.
@glutton- of course I've seen tons of bs out there too but you can;t generalize you know what I mean I've seen bad judo schools too so that must mean judo is bad lol
@kw- I had 10 years wrestling experience fresh out of high school and met my wing chun sifu & he could tap me easy and he was hard to get a takedown on because he trained how to fight in all situations not just one or two & I got my blue belt in bjj a few months ago for choking out a black belt in sparring in class and it's only been like 2 years since I took wing chun so it's relative.
hell even bjj vid possum posted on Y!A was pretty bullshit so that must mean bjj is bad...
The best grappler I ever met in my life was sensei takeshi kimeda who runs a yoshinkan aikido dojo in my city & he's a 9th degree black belt who is 70 something years old and I couldn't do jack to him he tossed me around like rag doll and I'm much larger than him & he could hit too but he did it weird like he would grab my arm as I punch at him & punch me to set up a throw or lock & I learned a lot from my few free lessons from him.
check him up if you don't believe me he's legit & the aikido was crazier than any other aikido I ever seen but it doesn't mean it's his style it's his training methods!
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jul 18, 2012 0:02:21 GMT -5
I don't really think it's particularly fair to compare single stylists to MMA practitioners as MMA practitioners. Think about it MMA fighter would mean everyone who has multiple schools or styles to train at. I'd be an MMA fighter by anybody's definition but since ten of the twelve years I've been training I've spent doing Kyokushin I'd still consider myself a Kyokushin practitioner.
The other thing I'd point out is that there are differences between somebody who goes to an MMA gym with a single teacher, somebody who practices several styles at several schools and somebody who goes to a single school with multiple teachers teaching different areas in different classes.
A person who practices at an MMA gym with a single teacher is likely to suffer the same problems as a single style practitioner. The teacher can only focus on so many things at once and the higher grades and the gifted will usually be held back while the lower grades and the dense struggle to get their heads around the basics of their craft. One of the reasons I say that while Karate is a general style on a technical level and a mixed martial art in its creation most practitioners have spent very little time working on the elements of Grappling and Clinching because there are people in their class who struggle to get their heads around the basics of the first element - Striking. So the guy who does MMA under one teacher isn't really a mixed martial artist, he's a single stylist.
The guy who trains in two or more gyms has the advantage of being able to practice the basics and more advanced levels of at least two elements, possibly three because they have usually chosen teachers who focus on different elements, the other advantage is the greater variety of opponents and sparring methods he will be exposed to from training at two schools. The downside is he will be paying at least two schools which will probably cost him a freaking fortune and he will often recieve conflicting information and ideals from his multitude of teachers. I'll add to this, more often than not this guy is the real mixed martial artist as he is learning several martial arts and mixing them together himself, I'd also point out that the styles this guy mixes are usually from the single style options, that brings up the question of the difference between a style hopper and a mixed martial artist.
The guy who has two classes and teachers in one gym can have any number of advantages and disadvantages from the top two possibilities.
Not even all MMA teachers, students or schools are equal.
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Post by cheetah on Jul 18, 2012 12:31:35 GMT -5
There is no such thing as respect, but. You either have respect for all styles or you don't. There is also no such thing as "stand up" MAs. It all depends on how much experience you have because Karate and TKD teach a lot of grappling, but KW is right, you don't learn this training until you're a BB. I've multi style sparred numerous times and there is a really good counter to a single or double leg, it's called a front kick or a knee.
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Chef Samurai
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Post by Chef Samurai on Jul 18, 2012 12:54:21 GMT -5
I have yet to even see stand up & ground styles that don't pertain to the rules of competition.
In a fight to the death if you don't know how to fight on the ground it's your fault not your styles unless it's against the rules of your sport.
In a war where fighting is often to the death & you don't always have weapon you can do whatever you want.
Just because your teacher never taught you to bunch off your back on the ground doesn't mean it's not in the style it just means your teacher never taught you it & maybe he never taught it to you because his teacher never taught it to him but he himself knew it and used it quite often.
and odee is right you can't compare a singe stylist to a multiple stylist but you cant compare a combat athlete, a soldier & a civilian who needs to know self defence either because all 3 have different goals in what they need to do when fighting.
you also cant compare a single stylist who trains with people from their own style with a single stylist who trains his style with people from other styles.
a good example is the guillotine & rear naked chokes are in karate but few get to learn them because no one uses them because they are against the rules in karate sparring.
my wing class was like real fighting just a few safety rules so no one got maimed and when someone got token to the ground it wasn't stood up like in karate rules but it kept going like it does in reality.
at the end of the day it's about fighting and anything can happen in a fight & it's up to you to train under the circumstances anything can happen or not not your styles unless there's rules against it PERIOD!
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ThaiKwonDoFighter
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Taekwondo, Muay Thai, and Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu Practitioner [ AKA Cole (Death Metal Rocks) on YA ]
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Post by ThaiKwonDoFighter on Jul 18, 2012 18:55:48 GMT -5
if your talking about a street fight i believe you are sadly mistaken my friend.
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odee
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Kyokushin 10 years - Brazilian Jujitsu 3 years - Muay Thai 2 years.
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Post by odee on Jul 21, 2012 21:03:12 GMT -5
Now we just have to figure out who Taekwando fighter's friend is. Any takers?
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